2DOF Sabertooth 2x32, 12Volt Gear Motor.

Hello all, I hope you are well.

I have browsed, bookmarked, studied, ordered parts and read others build threads for over 2 years. This is a wonderful community of DIY'ers.

I have a few smaller projects under my belt:

I attached 4 bass shakers to my stationary rig and run them using SimCommander 4.

I've completed the DIY Steptronic Sequential Shifter that i've seen here(RacingMat's Tuotrial: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/diy-steptronic-sequential-shifter.6944/) and on iRacing forurms.

This will be the largest DIY project that I have undertaken.

I think it is time for me to get over the intimidation of the project and give it a try.

Design:

I have had inspirations form almost everythread that I have seen on this site but I used Armpit's thread
(https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...-mover-on-homebrew-ricmotech-rs1-clone.10377/) as my main design and parts order guidance.

I will mainly be simracing in VR but may occasionally dabble in VR flight sims.

I am following the SMC3-SPS Sabertooth Packet Serial PID motor driver w/SoftStart by BlazinH (https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ket-serial-pid-motor-driver-w-softstart.9277/) for loading the arduino code and configuring the sabertooth.

Parts:

Gear Motors: https://www.ebay.com/itm/371596157992
Price: 2 units x $100

Specs:
- 12 volt DC
- 180 watts
- Output Speed 75 - 80 RPM
- Load Between 50-60 N.M
More: http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBay...descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=2&secureDesc=0

Hall Sensors: https://www.newark.com/tt-electroni...-hall-effect-single/dp/85R4162?st=6127V1A180L
Price: 2 units x $15

Power Supplies:

Price: 2 units x $21

Specs:
- 12V 30A 360W

Motor Controller: Sabertooth 2x32


Price: 1 unit x $120

Arduino Uno: R3:

Price: 1 unit x $21

Flexible shaft Coupler:


Price: 2 units x $13

U- Joint Kit:

Price: 1 unit x $15

Flage Yoke to place the U joint in:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IVQPU5A/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Price: 2 units x $25

12mm Set Screw Key Hub: https://www.robotshop.com/en/12mm-set-screw-key-hub.html

Price: 2 units x $18



I will be updating this build thread as my progress continues.

My current status in the build:

1) I have installed DEScribe, connected my sabertooth and arduino, and adjusted the settings follwoing the guide by BlazinH for one of my hall sensor/motors. I will need to do the same for the second.

I am able to adjust the settings using SMC3Utils and see those changes reflected in the motor movement.

2) I have started to mount the motor mounts and the seat frame onto the base frame and will be doing calculations using SimCalc when everything is in place to determine the lever length.

Questions regarding electricity :

My motors are 12v 180 watts. I believe that means it will draw 15 Amps. My power supplies are 12V 360 watts and can output 30 amps.

1) I have used the resistor calculator recommended by dimension enginering to determine that I need a 0.8 ohms resistor that dissipates 180 watts at 15 amps. Is that correct?:



https://www.dimensionengineering.co...r?batteryvoltage=12&current=15&calc=Calculate.

2) In the Sabertooth Manual(https://www.dimensionengineering.com/datasheets/Sabertooth2x32.pdf), The sections covering the Motor Outputs Tab states:

"Current Limit

This setting sets the maximum current for the motor output. If the system tries to draw more current than the setting, the output duty cycle will be reduced. For Sabertooth 2x32, each motor output can be limited individually in a range between 0A and 64A. This is a soft current limit, and will slow acceleration but allow motor motion to continue. There is also a fixed hard current limit above approximately 70 amps which protects the Sabertooth from a shorted motor."

If this allows me to set the maximum current to my motor, can't it replace to need for a resistor?

3) I have two power supples, 2 motors, and one sabertooth 2x32.

If I connect both power supplies to the sabertooth, will each motor draw equally or is there a possibility that one motor will draw much more than the other and either blow up or leave the other underpowered.

Other Questions:

1) I have seen on many, many builds a peice of metal that attaches to the potentioneter shaft and back onto the rig. Is that necessary for hall sensors as well?

Thank you all for reading and I appreciate and comments, thougths, answers.

Dave

I do not use any resistors at all. And I have a lot of weight to move...

As said before no resistores needed.

I assume that you know what to do making the power supplies in series mode. Don't worry about drawing power from the Sabertooths, they manage it perfectly.

I don't really understand your issue, hall sensors are not different from other sensors in terms of handling...easier to use due to the non-contacting position sensor. Probably you can be more precise with your question?

Hello Pit,

Thank you for your guidance, your build is very impressive: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/3070w-6dof-seat-mover-wip-surge_sway-table.5276/

I will proceed without resistors at this point and worry about them if the need arises.

Responses to your comments:

1) "I assume that you know what to do making the power supplies in series mode. Don't worry about drawing power from the Sabertooths, they manage it perfectly."

I understand how to run power supplies in series or in parallel but I don't understand which one I need.

My power supplies are 12V/30Amps.

If I run them in series they would be:

24V/30 Amps.

If I run them in parallel they would be:

12V/60 Amps.

Which does the sabertooth need, more volts or more amps?

2) "I don't really understand your issue, hall sensors are not different from other sensors in terms of handling...easier to use due to the non-contacting position sensor. Probably you can be more precise with your question?"

In the FAQ: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/how-to-connect-protect-a-potentiometer.13/

There are several pictures of the potentiometers mounted to the motors, but the also have a angle bracket supporting/connecting them to the frame:



My questions is:

1) Is this angle bracket for neccessary for hall sensors or only potentiometers.

2) Will using a flexible shaft coupler provide enough support or is it recommended to use the angle bracket as well?




Any thoughts are appreciated.

Current Status:

I've connected both motors to the sabertooth 2x32 which is using one power supply right now. I have both hall sensors connected to the arduino and I am able to use SMC3Utils to montior adjust settings.



Here is short video showing the hall sensors controlling the direction of the motors:

It's not about what the sabertooth needs, it's about what the motors are rated for. If you have 12V 180W motors they will need 12v. 24 volts might ruin them in short order.

The base of the hall sensor needs to be fixed otherwise it will just spin with the motor! So yes, you'll need an angle bracket.

I definitely should not run the power supplies in series and give them more voltage than the motros are rated for.

The question then becomes:

Should I run the power supplies in parallel. This would give the motors the correct amount of voltage but provide double the amount of amps?

I can run either:

• 1 12v 360 watt 30 amp power supply to power 2 motors. This would provide 12V 180 watts and 15 amps for each motor.

OR

• 2 12v 360 watt 30 amp power supplies to power 2 motors: This would provide 12V 360 watts and 30 amps for each motor.

I am fully aware that I may be misunderstanding the electrical needs of the system. Thank you for any advice.

The motors will only use the power they need so in most cases they will likely be under 180W (or drawing less than 15A at 12V). Because of the design of our motion sims, the motors are subjected to rapid reversals in direction which cause them to draw large amounts of current for a very short time, typically above their rated power (like millisecond spikes of 25 amps). Running the PSUs in parallel will provide more headroom for these current spikes and keep the power supply from shutting down or burning out. I'd say put the two you have in parallel and go for it!

Awesome, thanks for the advice @Milt.

I've made some progress this evening:

• I've installed LiveForSpeed demo version.
• Installed SimTools GameEngine Demo Version
• I've patched LiveForSpeed
• I'm able to run LiveForSpeed with GameEngine and GameManager synced together.

• LiveForSpeed is sending telemetry to GameEngine/GameManager and through the serial connection to Arduino/Sabertooth and controlling the motors.
  
  • Video of the game sending information to the motors:

Remaining Tasks:

• Build a better base frame. The image that has my seat and pedals shows that it is laid atop a inch piece of MDF that has 1000lb caster wheels. The MDF has 1 2x4 screwed down the middle as a makeshift spine to prevent flexing but it is not sufficient. I will be building a much more sturdy wooden frame to lay the MDF on top of without flex.
• I need to drill holes in my CTC levers so that they can be mounted to my key hub assembly. I don't have steel drill bits so I may need to purchase some.
• I only bought enough brackets to mount half of my motors. I wanted to make sure they were sturdy before buying all of them. I will need to pick them up.

Questions:

• What is the order of launching things? I was not able to get LFS and the GameEngine because SMC3Utils was open. I figured out that SMC3Utils was stealing the serial connection from the GameEngine so the game was not able to send serial data to the arduino/sabertooth. I am still not certain what the sequence should be. Correct me if I am wrong:

• • Launch GameEngine
  • Launch GameManager - Make sure it is connected
  • Launch Game
    • Correct?
• For Axis Assignments, Should I be setting roll as: Roll and second Roll with the Dir flag set(signifying negatvie), or should the roll axis be Roll and Sway?
• Same question for Pitch. Is it Pitch and second Pitch with Dir flag set(signifying negatvie), or should the pitch axis be Pitch and Surge?

• I am confused becuase I see other's axis assigments all using Pitch/Pitch, Roll/Roll. But when I run the game and monitor the Virtual Axis I see the Sway/Surge axis outputs match what the car is doing much more accurately.
• Also the Manual states the following:
• So, should I follow other people's examples because they've tested and know what their doing, my own eyes, or the game engine manual when setting the axis force settings.

​

• When I run a lap around LiveForSpeed, the motors are turning constantly. I think that if it detects that the pitch or roll is not = to 0 then the motor should be turning. I imagine there is a max setting somewhere that says. If pitch/roll is greater than 0 but less than 10 turn, otherwise don't turn. Can anyone point me to that setting? I've been reading the SimTools v2.4 manual, the simtools quickstart( https://www.xsimulator.net/simtools-quickstart/ ) and the simtools game engine documentation (https://www.xsimulator.net/simtools-game-engine/#Output-Testing) but I must have glossed over it.

Thanks for any comments or advice and thanks for reading. I feel like I am making a great amount of progress on something I've been dreaming about for years and it is very exciting.

Ah, I think I understand the difference pitch/surge and roll/sway now.

So my question is can these effects be layered? Can I use all for effects or do I have to choose 2?

Thanks noorbeast. I will read through those tutorials and the ones that I am currently looking at. I am working on building my base plateform and mounting everything today so that I can test with everything connected.



I have registered the DIY license and I have installed the RaceRoom plugin to make sure I understand the plugin procedure.

Question:

• If I set the PWMax to 50 and close the SMC3 application, that is the max speed the motors move until I change that setting in SMC3 utility again correct?

Progress Update:

I have assembled my rig, hooked up and tested my bass shakers, and connected the sabertooth, arudino, power supply, motors, and control arms.

Functionally, the setup "works":



I am have issues that I am hoping someone can help me out with.

Issue #1)

I can control the motors when using SMC3 to adjust speed settings. When I close SMC3, the motors continue to turn non stop. The only way for me to stop the motors from continuing to rotate is to disconnect the power supply OR open SMC3, and change the Max Limits setting to such a small amount that the motors move into that range and shut down.

What am I doing wrong? I expect to be able to change settings in SMC3, close the application and the motors to stop until I launch a game and begin racing.

This is the tutorial I've read for setting up SMC3: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ket-serial-pid-motor-driver-w-softstart.9277/, but I did not see step or setting to stop the motors after adjusting settings.

Issue #2)

When using SMC3 the motors rotate 360 degrees, is there a setting in SMC3 that will limit the axis. The max limits shut down the motors when the reach the limit, but is there a setting that stops the motor at 45 degrees from center in either direction without shutting off the motors?

Thanks everyone for reading and giving advice.

@noorbeast

Thanks for the link, I will read through that today.

One of the issues that I haven't figured out is that each time I open SMC3, the PWMax setting is defaulted back to zero. If I set the max to 100 and then close the application, the motors will continue to run. I then open SMC3, I see the PWMax setting is zero again. The motors don't change speed until I adjust the PWMax setting again. Then the change is recognized by the motors.




Here is an example of the settings I've been trying to use. I don't normally see that pattern, it's usually a straight blue line, like this:



Here is a quick video of me closing SMC3 but the motor continues to run as if it were still open(sorry for the horizontal to vertical orientation switch):

Yes, I believe so. Here is what I did to test this:

• Start SMC3 and select motor 1.
• Set the PWMax to 0 so that the motor is not being driven by the sabertooth.
• Set motor 1 to On.
• Turned the motor shaft by hand.
• The result was that the green line moved up the screen, reflecting the amount of rotation I was able to turn by hand.

I tried swithcing the positive and negative connections based on your suggestion. I didn't notice any difference in behavior. What would be different, or more simply, how would I know that changing the postive and negatives solved anything?

I'm going to re-read the instructions and go through all the steps again in the tutorial https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ket-serial-pid-motor-driver-w-softstart.9277/. I have to be doing something wrong.

The main questions I have are:

• When smc3 is behaving like it is supposed to. Am I able to set the values of PWMax without the motors spinning?

• If the motors always spin when adjusting PWMax in SMC3, are they supposed to stop spinning when the applicaiton is closed?

• If the motors always spin when PWMax is set to a high value, is there something I'm supposed to do to stop them from spinning until Simtools takes over and controls the motors?

• There is an On/Off button on the top left hand side of SMC3. It is used to toggle the motor on. Is there anyway to toggle the motors off within SMC3?

​

I've started from scratch:

• I ran describe again to make sure that the baud rate and ports were set correctly.
• I've uploaded the SMC3 sketch to the arduino again.
• I've followed the wiring diagrams here https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ket-serial-pid-motor-driver-w-softstart.9277/, and I referenced the sabertooth manual to make sure I was wired correctly: https://www.dimensionengineering.com/datasheets/Sabertooth2x32.pdf
• I 've followed the SMC3 tutorial to the end. The last step is:
  • Motor driver setup is now complete but the PID controller will still need to be turned to work properly with your particular setup. This will be done later though and is not included in the scope of this tutorial

At this point. I have set the settings according to the tutorial.

Here is a video showing what the target line and feedback line look like when I adjust the PWMax to 20. It also shows the motor rotating and pushing the control arm.



What I don't understand is:

How do I set the PWMax to 100 or 200, close the SMC3 application and launch simtools without the motors constantly turning?

• Are they supposed to stop automatically when SMC3 application closes?
• Is there some setting in the Arduino code that I need to change?
• Do I have to set a deadzone in the SMC3 software and hand turn the motors so that they fall within the deadzone in order to prevent them from moving?

In the Tutorial: It says after you've set the PWMax you are done. When are the motors supposed to stop turning? https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ket-serial-pid-motor-driver-w-softstart.9277/

• 17 - Now slowly, increase PWMmax… at some point the motor should start to move. When it does check the “Green” feedback line is moving toward the “Blue” target position.
  • If it is then that motor and feedback is wired correctly - proceed to test other motors.
  • If it is moving away turn off motor power immediately (or quickly reduce PWMmax again). In this case you need to either reverse the wires to the motor being tested –OR– reverse the +5V and GND wires to your feedback pot for the motor being tested (do not do both). Restart the test from the beginning.
• 18 - Set Step back to 100 and repeat steps #13, #14, #15, and #16 above for motor 2
• 19 - Motor driver setup is now complete but the PID controller will still need to be turned to work properly with your particular setup. This will be done later though and is not included in the scope of this tutorial

Is the green feedback line in my video not "moving toward the blue target line". The are both moving horizontally across the same axis but my feedback line is not moving across the vertical axis to meet the target line.

Thanks for taking the time to read and for any possible suggestions.

Dave

I think that while you have pwm at 0 or motor 1 or 2 off on the utility. You should loosen your flex coupling and adjust the "hall effect" pot to the center line independent of lever arm (motor position). Step one. Then rotate the lever arm (motor) to a position your seat or ujoint is at the middle point of it's travel (your choice where you figured it should be at rest.) Only than should you bring up pwm or enable the motor. If it doesn't follow moves over your limits you've set than it may be reverse leads time. You'll know as it turns motor off (top left utility). In my sketch is a line "//reverse motor" remove the // to reverse the motor if your problem is/was like mine. Hope it helps. No feedback in your video from the pot should be moving. As you adjust the pot by hand as before you'll see it move on the utility or it's not wired correctly/bad pot...