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Searching for a proven 2DOF design to replicate

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Shkup, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    I'm testing feasibility for 2DOF platform for flight simulator (only).
    I intend to use VR so I can give up screens attachment on the platform and maybe decrease complexity and weight.
    I'm checking now if DIY is an option. To do that I'm trying to search for a well known efficient design to replicate.
    I'm a software developer, another guy has broad experience with Arduino and electronics and another guy has experience and tools to deal with aluminum and other metal works and cuts.
    My questions are:
    1. Is there any 2DOF efficient and silent and relatively easy to build?
    2. Is traction lose relevant to flight sims?
    3. Is there any general scheme that explains the platform components and each one purpose?
    I know I'm a noob but I learn fast. I would really appreciate your help. Please don't mock my ignorance.
    At the worst case scenario I'll learn some interesting cool stuff.
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Doing some research before getting in too deep is time well spent.

    You will find plenty of helpful information in the FAQs, in particular check out the SimTools, fundamentals of motion and the design sections, plus the Arduino section for the required code: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/

    In particular have a play with SimCalc to get your head around the trade offs in design Vs physics, and what motors specs are needed to drive a given design at a desired performance level.

    There are plenty of DC powered 2DOF rigs that are powerful and pretty quite compared to actuator powered rigs.

    You can go through existing member projects for specific ideas or inspiration: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/forums/diy-motion-simulator-projects.22/

    Or search for specific types of projects using the Google Custom Search function on the Recent page: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/find-new/posts?recent=1

    If something sounds odd then look it up in the glossary: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/glossary-of-acronyms-and-names.66/
  4. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    Thanks for your reply.
    I have a read a lot of documentary but I still have some questions:
    1. Isn't it better to choose BLDC over DC motors?
    2. I've seen people mention that now a days the trend is Thanos controller with closed circuit AC motors. Is it relevant to my case?
    I prefer not to try design on my own but stick to a well known elegant design. Can you recommend a documented build that I can stick to?
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    BLDCs have been used for some 6DOF actuators but are not common for a basic 2DOF, though you could use them.

    A @Thanos controller is one hardware option, and is a convenient choice if using servo motors, but again there other options for a basic 2DOF.

    Perhaps first focus on the design, as that will determine what specs will be needed to drive it for a desired performance, you can then consider your hardware options.
  6. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    Thanks for your reply!!!
    OK. So I understand that you recommend for 2DOF brushed DC motors. Is it suitable for later upgrade to 3DOF? Last question - If you were a beginner what was the build that you would chose for cloning. Something here, well documented.
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Actually what I recommended was that you work out what you want to build, then consider the best way to go with hardware to power it, which will likely come down to what suits you in terms of ease of access, building/configuration/use and cost.

    When you say upgrade to 3DOF do you men a traditional 3DOF with heave, or do you mean adding something like traction loss?

    Personally I originally intended cloning an existing project when I first started out, but ended up on my own path, building a compact 2DOF then upgrading it to 3DOF: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/dx-compact-simulator.5866/

    But whats suits you may be very different, which is often the case and reflected in the huge diversity of rigs member's build.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    Wow! Your rig is a-m-a-z-i-n-g!!! Everything is so well organized! And it seems industrial grade! I didn't know that DIY can get to such profound implementation.
    I want a flight simulator rig so I don't know if traction loss is relevant... 3DOF is way above my level right not, I just want it to be scalable if such need will arise.
    What I really need is a quick win. Creating an "arm" and program it as the foundation of the rig. Once I'm there (Can create a motion with it from arduino->amplifier\pot->motor) I think the rest of the way should be easier.
    That's the reason I looked for something already exist to stick to, so I won't have problem with components integration etc. and can gain some basic experience.
    The aluminum frame I can create is basic. In yours the chair base looks like CNC and something that required advanced machinery. (Unless this is ready to use part).
    So as I said I'm looking to gain some experience that will give me the foundation to advance further. I'm reading material but lacks some hands on practice.
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Traction loss is more relevant to racing sims, to simulate the rear end breaking loose.

    A basic 2DOF, shoulder or foot mount designs, are about the easiest for a quick win, and surprisingly good for what they are, as you can even simulate fake surge and heave.

    But a 3DOF is better suited to flight and is really a different design concept, rather than an easy upgrade path from 2DOF.

    I suspect the quickest and most cost effective approach for flight simulation may be a G-Seat, rather than a 2DOF, you could easily replicate @xxpelle's RC servo powered pneumatic G-Seat and motion driven harness, if you have access to a 3D printer, as he provides the STL files: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/update-pneumatic-g-seat.14306/

    When I get time I plan adding a pneumatic G-Seat and harness to the cheap VR haptic flight sim rig I built for my father: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/teddles-vr-haptic-rig.13821/
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  10. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    Do you have any more how-to build videos and schemas you can point out?
    I tried to search youtube but couldn't find any good material...
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The linked thread is pretty detailed, including descriptions, photos, videos and downloadable files, but for more related information check out the gSeat FAQ section: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/gseat.20/category
  12. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    There are no details about frame and chair to work with? (Is it a regular chair or some other chair?) Can you please direct me to the right direction?
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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  14. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    No no. I'm talking about the G seat.
    What seat is the base?
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Any seat can be used as a G-Seat base, though some members custom build their own seats for maximum fit and control, for example @gforce's rib bruising G-Seat: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/g-seat.15035/

    @xxpelle's build thread is about as detailed as it gets, though as I mentioned is not a tutorial. There are similar build threads with different approaches to the same thing, for example @Jumping Coin's portable pneumatic G-Seat: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ct-for-beginners-no-power-tools-needed.15307/

    @early_m is selling his RC servo powered G-Seat, which itself has a pretty detailed build thread covering that particular approach: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/gseat-for-sale-essex-uk.15350/
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  16. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    @Jumping Coin's is indeed very helpful.
    I am struggling to understand the basic idea behind this.
    Tell me if I understand correctly: The electronics is actually building an accordion like device that is used as pump like hat blows and drains air from the air wedge bladders?
    The air wedge bladders are located at the bottom and back between the chair and surface you seat on like
    Realteus ForceFeel?
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Pneumatic G-Seats in simple bladder systems is via one bladder being compressed. The attached actuated bladders on the seat can be in multiple places to give the sensation of surge, heave, roll sway and pitch. Simple systems have the user weight for deflation.
  18. Shkup

    Shkup New Member

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    @noorbeast if I intend to buy a seat that I'll later on be able to leverage and integrate into a full platform what are the general guidelines? Are there standard measures or some other standard?
    There are tons of fiberglass based seats and full static cockpits... For instance if I glimpse towards a future sfx-100 build, what seat\cockpit can be the corner stone for this?
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    A seat is a very personal choice, in terms of cost, aesthetics and comfort, where possible go for something light as possible that meets those 3 criteria for you.

    Here are some user contributed dimensions and related ergonomics: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/cockpit-design-dimensions.116/