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Question can someone help me?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Gigino83, Mar 26, 2023.

  1. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    I can't get it to go, but I don't understand what I'm doing wrong..
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    So you had it working with RC servos not the issue is converting to motors and SMC3, is that correct: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/test-with-rc-servo.17780/#post-237726

    The video is not clear enough so please post pictures of all SMC3 settings.

    My guess is the PWMmax may be too low, these are the SMC3 setup steps and we need to know what the PWMmax value is when the motors start to move:
    1. Disconnect the motor power supply
    2. Make sure Simtools is not running – we’re not ready for that yet!
    3. Wire up the Arduino (with SMC3 installed) to your H-Bridges and connect to your computer via USB
    4. Run the Windows SMC3 Utility software and make sure it communicates with the Arduino (There is no need to set baud rates, they are not configurable)
    5. Set the Kp, Ki, Kd, PWMmin, PWMmax, PWMrev to 0 for ALL motors (This will make sure the motors don’t move)
    6. Set Clip to 255 (you need to do this first) and Limit to 255 (This will give you plenty of margin if something goes wrong while setting up)
    7. Turn on the power to your motors – nothing should move at this stage!
    8. Set Kp to about 400
    9. Now slowly, increase PWMmax… at some point the motor should start to move. When it does check the “Green” feedback line is moving toward the “Blue” target position.
      • If it is then that motor and feedback is wired correctly - proceed to test other motors.
      • If it is moving away turn off motor power immediately (or quickly reduce PWMmax again). In this case you need to either reverse the wires to the motor being tested –OR– reverse the +5V and GND wires to your feedback pot for the motor being tested (do not do both). Restart the test from the beginning.
    10. Do the above for each motor
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    yes exactly with the rc servos it worked but now I wanted to do a test with the motors in order to then move on to building a real simulator.. I followed the procedure you said setting everything to zero, the KP to 400 then I raised PWmax slowly and the motor makes a very small rotation when I reach the PWmax at 40 but it stops immediately, and if I move it it goes back to that point.
    upload_2023-3-27_6-17-0.png
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Can you please run the Sine in Out Mode at 40, then at 100 for PWMmax, and post a picture for both.
  5. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    sorry what does "in sine mode" mean? anyway now I have to go to work, tonight I'll try again thanks.
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Check the box for Sine in Out Mode:
    upload_2023-3-27_6-17-0.png
  7. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    but how many K potentiometers would be fine? does it vary according to the engine that is used or does it not coincide? now I use the 10K.
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    10k pots or 180 degree Hall sensors are commonly used by members here.

    Some gear pots, directly attaching Hall sensors is fine as they have greater resolution.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    this is what it does, i kept the potentiometer unplugged, should i have left it plugged in instead?


    I understand that I said is wrong.. now I connected the potentiometer and increased the value a bit to follow the green line, right? but i also tried to start the sim tool but i cant get it to move.
    upload_2023-3-27_20-24-18.png
    upload_2023-3-27_20-24-52.png
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2023
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes pots need to be connected and SMC3 configured to ensure proper tracking responses tuned to your hardware.

    For SMC3 the SimTools Interface Output needs to be set to: [A<Axis1a>][B<Axis2a>]

    Grab a copy of the SimTools manual and keep it handy for reference: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/rtfm-start-with-the-official-simtools-documentation.117/

    The FAQs have some great settings tips: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/simtools-settings-tips-and-tricks.18/category

    In particular, your Axis Assignment total allocation should be around 100% total: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/axis-assignment-percentage-totals.120/

    The DIR checked orange or not determines which way each axis moves, this is what SimTools expects: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/which-way-to-set-simtool-axis-movements.230/

    And see the tuning tips here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  11. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    thanks, in the end last night I managed to make it move with live for speed, I'd say that I'm done with the miniature tests now I want to start making them with bigger engines and start building a simulator! always to start one step at a time and not waste too much money, I thought about going into demolition and getting 2 windshield wiper motors and buying this power supply:
    upload_2023-3-28_6-21-27.jpeg
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Keep in mind a full size sim generates significant power spikes in fast reversals.

    Personally on my compact rig I use three 600w modified server PSUs, though others, like you posted, will also work and be less sensitive to tripping.

    Given that PSUs are not particularly expensive I would suggest getting additional overhead in wattage and if possible a PSU per motor.

    PSUs are also easily repurposed in upgrades and many members who build wiper motor powered rigs do tend to replace those with more powerful motors later on.
  13. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    ok thanks for the advice, so i'm looking for a higher wattage? as amps i saw that the maximum they support the H bridges is 43 amps.
  14. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    Could you recommend two motors that are perhaps better than car wipers but very cheap? Maybe if you can put a link from amazon or a reliable site thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2023
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Motor availability and cost vary dramatically, depending on where you are in the world and in particular current shipping costs.

    Likely the cheapest option for powerful DC motors are local secondhand 24v ones from powered wheelchairs. If you use the Enhanced by Google search on the Recent page and search for wheelchair motors you will find plenty of projects that have used them.
  16. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    hi, I'm starting the design of the potentiometer support to be connected to the motor, I have seen that some connect it directly to the motor shaft and some use a toothed pulley with belt.. what are the advantages or disadvantages of the two options?
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    180 degree Hall sensors have the advantage of good resolution when being directly connected.

    But 10k pots will work but better to be geared, check the FAQs: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/how-to-choose-potentiometer.238/
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    upload_2023-4-3_8-11-1.jpeg

    I don't understand one thing, for the classic movement of a 2dof what should I put? then the percentage next to what is it for? for the strength or for the working angle?
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Even with a 2DOF you can configure sway, surge, heave, roll and pitch.

    What % Axis Allocation is something you tune for each game, depending on the response of your rig and personal preferences, there is no 'magic' set of numbers.

    You should initially do each axis one at a time, do check out the motion profile tuning tips in the FAQs: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/
  20. Gigino83

    Gigino83 Member

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    I need to print out all the documentation so I'll better read them.. I found this engine, do you think it could be good? better from 75RPM or 120RPM?
    upload_2023-4-3_9-55-32.jpeg