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Troubles with motor shields and psu

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Tadus, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    finally, after almost 10 years of dreaming about flight sim, i’m ready to make it happen. I already did some steps with the project and that is possible only with some help and great information found in this community/ forum.
    I’m facing a problem with motor shields/arduino. I managed to burn 3 motor monster shields... and still, don't know what is the cause of the issue.

    D24A17C8-FB0B-4FAA-B5CC-225B71EFC37D.jpeg E391B0C3-A803-478A-A7CA-4DFD083AEC6C.jpeg
    The equipment I use:
    • Motors: WG116BD92-2 Wiper type motor/wormdrive 12V 120W 35-55U/min 95Nm
    • Motor control shield: Monster motor shield
    • Server PSU: HP DPS-600 PB B (575W, 47A, 12V)
    • 10k pots
    • Arduino uno

    Wiring made according mr. @RacingMat, https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...-and-2-pins-direction-hbridge-motomonster.67/

    3482334C-1A93-4EC2-9B0A-1394F0E0D4AE.jpeg 138642E2-D4D4-46D9-81E3-FBA9141A19E0.jpeg 259574F7-AB5E-40F6-B543-BFFE3A6446BF.jpeg
    the problem:
    after powering on the system it looks that all things are working properly. However, it seems that psu cant handle the load (can it really be ?). Until first power cutoff everything works just fine (as described in RacingMat post) - i can control the motor direction with pots. After power cutoff - i cant understand what happens, but everything seems messed up resulting “baked” monster shield. And the exactly same issue with all three monster shields.
    With last one I managed to replicate the issue and made a video:


    I would greatly appreciate your help to sort out the psu power cutoff issue and the motor controll issue.

    Thank you
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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  4. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    @noorbeast - thank you, I will check all provided links and information. I have never thought that motors should be isolated (and they are not isolated ..) Hopefully, this will solve my initial problem :)
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    Gents, please check my wiper wiring. Do I need to do here anything as it seems wires are connected directly to the brushes...
    03DD40F4-CBAE-4E50-B336-2A81F97A6E5A.jpeg C6E21F0B-D38C-4CD9-8113-A4F9BD6C568F.jpeg

    Should I redo something here or problem might be somewhere else ?
    Thank you
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  6. WalkerYYJ

    WalkerYYJ New Member

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    Not familiar with those motor drivers but something we've seen before when running some types of inductive motors on computer PSUs:
    Inductive motors can generate back EMF/ripple etc which when detected by high quality computer power supplies will make the PSU think "WTF! Back current¿?¿?¿?!!! STOP ALL THE THINGS!!!!!" and subsequently will go into a safety shutdown mode (as a server should never see that sort of ripple on its power bus, and if it does something is well up and screwed).

    If you want to quickly try something to see if that's whats going on here, try running the system on a car battery as a check. A car battery wont give 2 shits what back current you give it. If it works from there then your options are:

    -Use a "stupider" supply

    -Use a battery with a charger (can allow you to run MUCH larger motors depending on duty cycle and battery bank capacity)

    -Build a power conditioning circuit

    -Use different motors
  7. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    @WalkerYYJ Thank you for your comments and suggestions, much appreciated!
    What I did is removed one brush and left only the "fast" speed only. Also, I purchased a new power supply (server PSU - DELTA, capable of 106A at 12V), it seems that power supply was the problem (never thought that ever can happen :) )
    Got new mosntershields and wired both mosfets as single-output (to protect from burning AGAIN :D ). I don't know much about programming, so I chose to go "easy way" and followed instructions here: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...3dof-motor-driver-and-windows-utilities.4957/
    I have now only one issue - as I understand I don't get a PWM signal to reverse the motor. So it turns only one way. Please see the video that I mean. I feel that I miss some small detail, but cant figure by my self. sincerely hope that this time is only a minor thing :)
  8. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    Do you have the potentiometer of that motor connected? in the video it is not appreciated, also try to check that there is no bad connection
  9. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    I have tried to move potentiometer to A0 from A1 - the result is the same. Hmm.
    Inkedwhaaat_LI.jpg
    The motor turns only when the SIN is above the green line. I'm confused - Gents, please help to sort out this

    Thank you !
  10. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    I tested other MonsterMoto - and it works as should be (rotating both sides). I tried to redo the wiring for the one that was not working, but it didn't help... Must be a faulty shield?
    Thank You
  11. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    It is very likely that if it is damaged, it is therefore advisable to try them when receiving them
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    Alright, I received a new motor shield. FINALLY, all is working nicely! The middle point (where the motors are not turning either direction) are very sensitive and bearly can get them to stop :D. But I played only with SMC 1.01 Soon it will be time for simtools.
    I'm a bit worried about motor overrotating and crashing into a motor frame or destroying the POT mounting. Do you usually install end stoppers (mechanical and/ or electrical? )

    Thank you
  13. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    Any added security always comes in handy, on the one hand you should keep in mind that you have the option of increasing the dead zone in smc3 utilities, it is not advisable to increase this value much, on the other hand if the potentiometer enters the arduino clip zone it will stop immediately the motor that has exceeded the clip area, to restart it will be necessary to move the potentiometer out of the clip area and restart arduino
  14. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you @zapata_h
    I managed to snap off freshly mounted pot :D . Before mounting to the rig, I checked the SMC utility and stoped motor rotation (pot in the center position). Than, disconnected from power and mounted the pot in place (without turning the pot). Then, after powering the system motor started to rotate and hit the pot...
    Question: is there a step by step guide on how to test the rig? What I mean is that I don't know if SMC utility should always run together with simtools? Any chance to test function with DEMO mode of simtools?
    How to set and where to set so when I power on the system - motor rotates to center and then stops (waiting for simtools probably)?
    p.s. reading now through FAQ, but any link to guide would be appreciated :)
    Thank you :)
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Running the SMC utility and SimTools at the same time on the same machine will cause a port conflict, so shutdown SMC3 utility before firing up SimTools.

    The demo version of SimTools includes the fully functional plugin for Live For Speed, specifically for testing purposes. Download LFS here: https://www.lfs.net/downloads

    Make sure you run a LFS race in first person mode before patching it for motion, as that generates some required files.

    The SimTools manual is here, which is a great way to get a basic understanding of SimTools: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/rtfm-start-with-the-official-simtools-documentation.117/

    This is how to go about refining a motion pr0file: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    @noorbeast
    Thank you very much! will give it a try. Hopefully all future pot's will be unhurt :D
  17. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    The guide to adjust the potentiometers is here

    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...3dof-motor-driver-and-windows-utilities.4957/
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you for your help gents. I was able to wire and test-run the system using SMC3:
    IMG_3465.jpg


    I have installed simtools, followed the manual to setup a simple 2dof system. But I have an issue and can't find the answer using google.
    The problem is that neither axis moves or can be simulated using simtools game engine "Output testing" I tried the DOF Output testing and (a) Axis Output testing methods. Neither can move the axis. I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong with settings. But I can't figure what it is:
    IMG_3537.jpg IMG_3538.jpg

    Once again - I would appreciate your help - I'm so close :D (hopefully)

    Thank You
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Try changing the BitsPerSec to 500000 in your Interface Settings.
  20. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    Remember to place heatsinks on the motomonster plates, it is vital
  21. Tadus

    Tadus New Member Gold Contributor

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    @zapata_h Thanx, I'm looking for some heatsinks with coolers, hopefully, will get few from the computer shop, from old motherboards or graphics card. Now, I run very shortly and "measure" temp with my fingers :D

    I managed to run the motors using SimTools (@noorbeast - changing only the BitsPerSec didn't help) I still don't know what the problem was and what are these settings meaning but I did view one video and wrote just the same as this guy:


    I removed the 3rd axis and kept all other the same:
    Changes_bits.jpg

    So now I have some "jerky" movements. I tried to finetune settings in the SMC3, but really don't know what setting can have greatest impact on this behavior. Here is the video, showing the best I could get today:


    What settings (smc or simtools?) I should look to remove such behavior?

    Thank you !