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Simulated Wind using MonsterMoto and ArduinoUno

Discussion in 'SimTools compatible interfaces' started by SilentChill, May 15, 2015.

  1. Keith

    Keith Active Member

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    Thank you noorbeast. I took your advice and installed Simhub. Works nicely
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  2. hideki

    hideki Member

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    I use Simhub but with MotoGP 18 I cant use both, Is there anyway to change the simtools pluging port for Motogp18 (7100) so we can port via Simhub to Simtools? If I could find the file to change the 7100 port in the Motogp game it would be so easy but I just cant find it. Thanks
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    You can port forward from SimHub: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/simhub-port-forwarding.356/
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  4. hideki

    hideki Member

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    Thanks
    Hello Noorbest I know but the problem is that I cannot change the 7100 port from the game so If I use simhub to port forward I would need to change simtools pluging port to, lets say, 7101, Once simhub reads the game, simtools doesnt work. Or it is possible to port twice with the same 7100 port? Many thanks
  5. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    Dumb questions incoming: How/where do I wire a case fan to the MonsterMoto+ArduinoUno setup? Should I use a 5V or 12V fan? What changes to the code (if any) need to be made? I am using the code found here (post #122).
  6. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    @Chipless - is/are the case fan(s) for wind? If so, you want 12V without PWM or tach. Tach is an output so if you have fans with tach outputs, you can just ignore those. The MonsterMoto wiring diagrams have been posted multiple places here. I don’t have a link handy but should be easy to find with a search. I would think it would also be in that thread you linked on Avenga’s fan setup.

    As to code, I think the latest Arduino code is what I massaged from other people’s work here. I found some command input issues in the old code and added commands so you can address right and left fans independently should anyone want to do differential wind. You don’t have to do differential wind. The code also supports the stock S commands that sets both fans to the same speeds. I just added R and L analogs to let you set the speeds independently. I think that’s the latest code but am not 100% certain.

    L
    ink removed - see this post instead: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...rmoto-and-arduinouno.6876/page-33#post-213758
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  7. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, the case fan is for wind. I 3D printed a case using the files @Wmacky posted here. I will update my code with the code you posted, and I will also try to track down how to wire the 40mm x 40mm 12V case fan. I doubt heat sinks will be needed given I am just running two SeaFlos off of the monster moto, but please let me know if I should add heatsinks as well. Cheers!

    EDIT: One additional question: So will the case fan just operate at a constant 100% speed whenever there is power to the MonsterMoto?
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  8. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    Based on this photo, it appears I can just wire the 12V case fan directly off of one of the outputs going to one of the SeaFlos/blowers. Is there a better way to do this?
    [​IMG]
  9. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    Hey @Chipless, you do want to heat sink the MonsterMoto if you use high current fans. Regular case fans should be ok, though, but keep an eye on the bridge chip temperatures. The MM uses the circuit board as a heat sink and the H-bridge chips are designed to dump most heat into the board. But yeah, just wire the case fans in like the SeaFlows.

    A couple of things, though. You might want to use a low PWM frequency in the software. Case fans I’ve seen have electronic commutation. PWM turns the whole fan circuit off and on and there is probably a startup time in there that if you switch the fans on and off too fast, they might not even run. I mention just in case. I don’t know that will happen, but if it does, change the PWM frequency to lower values until they do run properly. Case fans are a bit different than DC motors. You may need to optimize things a little to make them work. It is possible that the fans might not work with power being turned on and off but others seem to be using muffin/case fans and I think there is a commercial offering.

    To answer your question, they shouldn’t run at 100% when the MM is powered. The same program you use to program the Arduino has a serial terminal application built in. You can tell it to connect to the Arduino port and you should be able to send S000 and the fan speed should be zero. Send S128 and they should be at half speed. S255 is full speed. If the fans run with S000, there could be a wiring problem of some kind or possibly a blown part on the MonsterMoto.
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  10. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you so much for the great info @Zed! I think I need to clarify my goals though because I am not sure I explained it clearly enough originally: My goal is to wire a case fan to the same MonsterMoto board that powers my two SeaFlo fans used for wind sim in order to help cool the board inside of the case while using wind sim. Based on the photo I shared above, it looks like the way to accomplish this is to wire the case fan directly to one of the outputs being used by SeaFlos. If that's the case, I am guessing no additional code is applicable since it will just spin the case fan based on the output sent to one of the SeaFlos. I guess my question boils down to this: Is this the optimal way to add a case fan to my wind sim setup?

    Also, which heatsinks do you recommend and what is the best method to attach them?

    Lastly, what should I do if I notice one of my SeaFlos spools up first and remains faster than the other?

    Thanks again for your time and help!
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I can think of 3 options, wire the case fans directly to 12V, which is simple and means they run flat out all the time, wire the case fans to the SeaFlows as you suggest, which is equally simple and means the fans ramp up per the load of the SeaFlows, or independently hook up the fans to a temperature monitor and fan control software for maximum control, but that seems like overkill. Personally I would go with option number 2 and hook the fans to the SeaFlows.
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    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  12. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you so much. I concur: Option #2 seems like the best and easiest option.

    My other two questions still remain: What is the easiest way to even out blower fan response? My left blower fan begins spinning much earlier than the right one, and the overall fan speed at any given output from a game is much faster on the left fan than on the right fan.

    Also, which heatsinks are recommended and what specifically should I use to attach them? I am guessing thermal paste of some kind, but I don't have any experience in such projects...which is probably obvious at this point.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2020
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I would suggest that individual motors need individual PID settings to try and even them out.

    Yes use thermal past with heatsinks and a fan. It really is a case of whatever heatsink fits well on a chip and has plenty of surface area.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  14. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    @Chipless - if one fan runs significantly faster than the other, starts earlier, etc, there could be a wiring issue or part fault. One will probably always start before the other but they should run pretty close. You can see if it’s just differences in the motors by swapping the motors. The slow fan should always be the slow fan. If the slow fan changes when you swap motors and one set of leads runs slower than the other, it sounds like a wiring or part issue.

    Also, Avenga76 included chokes in series with the motors to help protect the MonsterMoto H-bridge chips and IIRC also helped cut audible whine. Are you using chokes in series with the fans? And he did just piggyback the fan that cools the MM on one of the SeaFlo fan outputs.

    As to heat sinking the MM, what @noorbeast said is right. It’s whatever fits and anything helps. I’d add that you want to make especially certain that the heat sinks can’t slide and short wires or parts since they are generally very conductive aluminum or copper. Similarly, if your thermal paste is conductive (I think most isn’t these days), be especially careful applying it. In the attached photo, you can see little chip-sized heat sinks. Look for heat sinks with high thermal conductivity adhesive pads. Or get regular heat sinks and some adhesive pads designed for heat sinks. It will simplify things a lot.

    E1E00D6F-1731-4BFE-931D-29560488F92C.jpeg
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  15. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    @noorbeast & @Zed Thank you so much for taking the time to provide such valuable info. I certainly feel like the most ignorant person on these forums, but I am beyond grateful for this community since I'd be spinning my wheels without everyone here. I think I have all the info I need to add the heatsinks, so thanks for taking care of that question :)

    As far as chokes go, I am not using chokes in series (or chokes at all), and if I'm being completely honest, I am not sure I even know what a choke is. I recall seeing something that looked like a wound copper coil on a board, so perhaps that's it? I am not even sure why I am guessing though haha. I am beginning to think I should have just purchased a kit from Avenga76, but I had already begun the DIY version when I discovered he was producing full kits. Anyway, are chokes something I should add? If so, can you refer me to some more info about creating/adding them? The whine isn't a huge issue for me since I play with in-ear monitors which block out all environmental noise, but if chokes are easy and inexpensive to add, I'll definitely do so for the protective properties you listed as well.

    Lastly, and in regards to the variation in SeaFlo responses, I noticed that the severity of the response difference seems to vary by sim title. For instance, the difference is much more noticeable in rFactor 2, where the right SeaFlo spools up much later and remains slower than the left SeaFlo as compared to in Automobilista 2, where the difference is slight, but still noticeable. I will try to swap the blowers around to see if the variance is due to differences in motor, but @noorbeast mentioned changing PID settings to compensate, which I think I'd prefer to do if I can get acceptable results simply because it's less work, and I am not sure I can troubleshoot the problem effectively if the discrepancy ends up following the leads instead of the blowers themselves. That being said, I have no idea how to adjust the PID settings for each motor, or what specifically to attempt to adjust, so any guidance in that department would be greatly appreciated :confused:

    Thanks again guys, I can't thank you enough for your time.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that my MATH multiplier in Game Dash is 3 in order to get the fans to spin at full speed at most car's top speeds, which I was curious to hear if that seems normal or not.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  16. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    It’s no problem Chipless and glad to help. A lot of good people here. Noorbeast busts hiney helping people.

    On the fans it sounds like you see the differences at low speeds? If so, that’s fairly normal. And I would need to check but I think I use 3 as a multiplier as well.

    The wound copper coil you see is probably a choke, or more properly an inductor. Inductors and capacitors are opposite sides of the same coin. Inductors oppose changes in current that flows through them while blocking AC currents, and capacitors oppose changes in voltage and block DC voltages. What is happening is your fan motors are also inductors. When the bridge switches on and current starts flowing through the motor, energy gets stored in the fan motor windings as a magnetic field. That energy turns into a high voltage when the field collapses after the bridge turns the current back off and can exceed the limits of what the bridge can safely handle. I don’t have direct experience to say if the chokes are really needed or not. Skimming what was being discussed early in this thread, it looks like there were some failed MMs. Could have been from lack of snubbing the voltage but I don’t know that. A detailed read would probably tell the tale. I believe the MM has some protection built in but it might not be enough in this application.

    T.m looks like one of the first to start looking into solutions: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...rmoto-and-arduinouno.6876/page-13#post-125950

    Avenga76 does a deep dive here: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...rmoto-and-arduinouno.6876/page-14#post-126332

    And here are the hardware details: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...rmoto-and-arduinouno.6876/page-14#post-126500

    He did some really good work. Looks like Avenga specifies 470 uH (microhenry) for inductance with a 5A rating. You can probably find those at some electronics part houses. If you are in the USA, check out Coil Winding Specialists (https://www.coilws.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=208_212_228_96)

    There is a part on that page that looks just about perfect for this. It’s TC-471M-7A-130V at $6.75 each. 470 uH with a current rating of 7A.

    About the troubleshooting by switching fans, it should be really easy. Just swap the leads to the fans and retest. If for example the right fan runs faster than the left and you swap the leads, if it is the fan itself, you should see no change and the right fan should still run faster. If it’s a wiring or component problem, then the left fan would start running faster than the right in this scenario.

    Assuming it’s the fan, what you can do is make a simple change in the Arduino code to add a little to the PWM setting of the slow fan to speed it up some. Or take a little off the fast fan’s setting to slow it down. I think noorbeast misspoke by calling it PID. What he was suggesting is modifying the PWM values which is really easy to do in the Arduino code. Test the fans by swapping leads and we can go from there with your results.
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  17. ART FLY

    ART FLY Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Bummer ...
    I just ordered 6 new Monster Motos from eBay after watching Silent Chill's video on checking his boards back than - the first 3 I bought and tried did not do the job :(

    Is the SilentChill's method - put MM on top of ARD an it works (with the code from page 1) still the method that is working or did I miss something? I have the same 2 vents as Avenga76. I am sure I did all the setup right.

    Thanks my friends for a short message :)
    Cheers ARTi
  18. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  19. ART FLY

    ART FLY Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you for the reply dear Zed. I have sparetime on Monday afternoon. I'll try that code version and see if it works :)
    COOL !!!
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  20. Chipless

    Chipless Member Gold Contributor

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    @Zed and @noorbeast Since you two were helping me out with the issues I had with my fans spinning at different speeds, I wanted to update you:

    Since I wanted to incorporate quick connects/disconnects for the DC power supplies as well as to the SeaFlo fans themselves, I decided to redo all the wiring and swap out the Monster Moto board, which meant resoldering all of the pin headers as well (basically starting from scratch).

    I figured swapping out the Monster Moto board entirely would also allow me to easily add the case fan as well.

    Well, for some reason, I was never able to get the case fan running at all off of the same Monster Moto output as one of the SeaFlos. The only way I was able to get the case fan to run was to wire it directly to the incoming DC power supply. This means the case fan runs at 100% speed whenever the Wind Sim is turned on, but at least it works!

    The new Monster Moto and total rewiring fixed the discrepancy in fan speed between the two SeaFlos as well, so I finally have a working wind simulator!

    Thank you so much again for the suggestions. I have to admit, I was hesitant to mess with the wiring because I thought it was fine, but clearly something was wrong with it, or the Monster Moto itself. Thanks for the encouragement to get "under the hood" so to speak :)
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