1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Sebj - 8020 - Seat Mover with Traction Loss

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Sebj, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    38mm should be good as you say

    it is the side rocking motion of the rig at the front, its not in the wheel stand posts, those are rock solid attached by 8 screws each from the bottom of the foot plate into the 8020. When you have a single point of contact at the front you'll always get some motion like this no matter what. You could eliminate it more so by adding castors underneath but like i said, I didnt see the point since this movement is negligible when driving only when you rock it with your hand can you product larger motions.

    You can adjust the seat position as much as you want since you can slide the joint underneath it and also adjust how the seat sits on the joint itself - i.e. adjusting the center of gravity (very important!)
    the wheel is amazingly adjustable, up/down, forward back, angle...
    Pedals are not adjustable on the fly though, i'd have to get a metal plate ontop of the 8020 and add some cam levers to make it adjustable. right now too many screws to undo to move the pedals back and forth or up and down. But not impossible. Again adjustments here are very large. if you intend to have a more F1 sitting position you may need higher side posts for the pedal assembly to ensure you can raise them high enough off the rig.

    I'm not sure yet what i'd change. At this point nothing drastic, perhaps revise the design to decrease the amount of metal plates and fasteners needed to simplify the build for others. As I run this thing more, i'll comment on changes. I also plan to post some pics and video(s) as soon as i have more time.
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    On TL

    I deviated from the original design on how to anchor my TL rod to the base. I saw this at my local fastener shop for $6!
    took out the ring, drilled a 10mm hole for my rod end, secured it in the middle then secured the anchor to the bottom and connected the rod to the motor level. Works like a charm guys.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-666-lb-Recessed-Anchor-Ring-54528/206967359

    ...pictures forthcoming
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Still getting things cleaned up, have to mount estops, change my pedal mount somewhat but essentially running now.

    IMG_20180818_225018.jpg IMG_20180818_225129.jpg IMG_20180818_225458.jpg IMG_20180818_225827.jpg

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,551
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    113,997Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,133 / 46 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Looking good, I really like the craftsmanship for all the custom mounts and brackets :thumbs
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Wish I could take credit for the design...Brackets and overall design is opensimracing.com

    The rest is DIY

    Hit up @Nick Moxley if you need anything like that, wheel related or otherwise.
  6. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    iRacing tuning values
    changed since 9/2/2018 - images not updated

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  7. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    As I turned on the unit today, I noticed the traction loss motor was spinning. Hmm.

    I broke the screw which I have through the shaft/axel last night. It was a 3.75mm OD screw. I'm going to make a new axel with a 4.7mm OD screw. Hopefully that will be thicker enough to work. The axel is 12.7mm OD.

    This is on a 50:1 wiper motor with a 120mm lever.

    Any other ideas?
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  8. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    all done. also secured all nuts with locktite on axel.
  9. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,786
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    17,401Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,497 / 30 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Once you find a Big enough cross pin bolt, The problem shouldn't re appear...I haven't touched my TL in years.
  10. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Had a drive crash...bummer...last backup I had was before simtools install so i lost all settings..ouch.

    I re-applied for DIY license a couple days ago, is this what I need to do to download again?

    Hopefully back up soon.

    btw, i got my traction loss lever welded to the axle and this is wholeheartedly better than using a screw through the axle.
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,551
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    113,997Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,133 / 46 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    No need for a license application, when one has already bee issued, you can look up your SimTools license number, just log into SimTools.us: https://simtools.us/member-login/

    Use the email you purchased the License with, and if you don't have a password, click reset password.
    • Useful Useful x 1
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  12. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    @noorbeast ok got my serial number but could only download demo version'''...no where to register...help :)
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,551
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    113,997Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,133 / 46 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Rookie mistake :blush Thanks Noorbeast
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Thought I'd update. Been running a few nights a week practice on iRacing and some Canada league racing, lots of fun. Took more time to tune the beast. Here are some insights.

    I used to focus on limiting the axis in game engine where I did not want lots of movement. I kept running into the issue of though of not getting the nuanced forces from the sim on the small movements. I then started using the BOUNDARY filter, and what a difference!

    This made all the difference running Extra2, Surge and Sway. I kept roll and pitch axis limited for now since I have been happy with the movement in these axis, I'm not looking for much here from a seat mover. Of course tune the Game Manager to each car, I find the Lotus79 needs some tuning down of Extra2 and Surge.

    upload_2019-9-23_22-3-5.png


    upload_2019-9-23_22-3-47.png upload_2019-9-23_22-4-8.png

    upload_2019-9-23_22-4-38.png
    upload_2019-9-23_22-4-55.png
    upload_2019-9-23_22-5-26.png

    upload_2019-9-23_22-6-26.png

    Extra2 - Heave/Road bumps
    upload_2019-9-23_22-6-44.png

    Extra1 Traction loss
    upload_2019-9-23_22-7-9.png
  16. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Hey guys and gals,

    Enjoying my sim big time. Always tweaking the settings lol. Motion these days is in sync with motion of the car on screen (VR) and with simvibe. Love it

    Seeing my settings above. Boy have they changed

    Upgraded video to 1070ti from 7970 couple months ago. Huge difference

    Upgraded i5 3670k to i9 9900k last week. Blown away. So fast no issues with VR now and running all the apps in the background as I have threads galore.

    Question, how does integral limit say 1000 vs 10000 supposed to affect motion? Does it interact with any of the values of PID?
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,551
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    113,997Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,133 / 46 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Here is a gentle introduction to PID, with links to more sophisticated explanation if you want to dive down he rabbit hole: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/a-laymans-analogy-guide-to-pids-pid-tuning.219/
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    1,513Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    First I want to give a shout out to the dev for including separate tuning parameters per car. I only noticed this a few days ago and now my life is complete. Hehe

    Ok, so I was tweaking my JRK settings because I was thoroughly unhappy with the response of the sim a couple months ago.

    So get this, I got rid of Integral. I based my entire turning process around using integral before to get an ideal curve response but there were worse side effects...such as, oscillations that required a lower proportional.

    Ok so I said goodbye to integral and it allowed me to run a higher proportional, I regained the quick accurate motion I was missing, and it allowed me to run a higher derivative without the oscillations and issues.

    Now my motors are extremely responsive, quick, powerful! and stop on a dime, no more overshoots. This has also done wonders for my 50:1 traction loss motor.

    Trying to put integral back in made no additional improvement event at 0.01 values without adding in oscillations.

    My setting on my shoulder 25:1 motors are now
    P 0.34. And D 0.69

    Can't recall on the 50:1 at the moment

    Anyone with the same experience?