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My 2-3DOF Scale build Basics - get up and running?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by John458, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Good question :), I haven't tried the system at max movement just been testing at a low PWmax.... that said I remember having a chat with the sabertooth people about loads (cause im not very schooled on electronics) and these are the ones they suggested with my worm gear motors

    also cant remember where i got them but here is a photo of the resistor in the meantime whilst I have a looksy

    Attached Files:

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  2. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Quick question.. im using SMC3 with Sabertooths and Worm Driver motors.

    is there a way either through SMC or simtools to change the ratio of a movement?

    For example say I want the unit to pitch up say twice as far (with the same in game "force" applied) than I want it to pitch down.

    So full stick back in the game and it rotates 30 degrees... but full stick forward and it rotates only 15 degrees.

    The other idea i had was to change the position of the feedback pot to be more towards one side in the SMC UtilityTool? see(attached) but then would simtools PotfeedA.jpg think it was never centered?

    Thanks
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know why you would want asymmetrical pitch but you can set different Max/Min in the Simtools Tuning Center. But it would respond snappier to the smaller value.
  4. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Well success in a sense I finally got things working.. however have a query regarding interface2 I think.

    In Xplane I have pitch and roll assigned to interface 1 and all works well in game in SMC3 and also in output testing. (in output testing I switch from DOF to (a) Axis Output for this) so thats all fine.

    I have yaw (extra 3) and heave assigned to axis B on interface 2 (2nd arduino) and works fine in output testing in SMC3, but get no movement from in game. I think heave is bugged in the plugin but yaw should work. I have tuned everything using the tuning center.. tried increasing the values in Extra 3 etc so it would be more responsive but still cant get it to move.

    So im thinking its an interface thing? but not sure as it works using output testing in Simtools. I then tried using DCS to see and get the same result.. Pitch and roll all good but no movement on the yaw again.

    Please see settings attached and any ideas would be great.

    Attached Files:

  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    It will be your settings that are the problem.

    Can you please first verify that your rig is configured to respond in the way SimTools expects, as it looks like you have a traditional 2DOF rig but it is not configured for that in Axis Assignments: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/which-way-to-set-simtool-axis-movements.230/

    Please do not use Filters and Axis Limiting until you have the basics sorted.

    Are in-game X11 setting configured correctly: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/x-plane-11-setup.288/
  6. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast thanks for that... I see what you mean.. ive gone to axis B which is not required at all lol... the DOFs should all be vertical with Axis 1a, Axis2a, Axis3a and Axis 4a as the motors.

    So I have changed that..(please see attached) and got the roll and pitch working.

    I have setup yaw and heave under Axis3a and Axis4a in my interface 2 (for the second arduino) as the following [C<Axis3a>][D<Axis4a>] but not sure if this is correct.?

    Using the DOF output test and "a Axis output" test, pitch and roll work ... still no joy on the Axis3a and 4a.. had a good look through the forums and all looks right to me.. is my interface 2 not setup quite right?

    Thanks for your help :) interface 2.JPG interface 1.JPG New axis.JPG
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Can you please post a picture of your rig, I gather it is a 2DOF with traction loss, but I need to be sure.

    Normally for a traditional 2DOF rig each DOF would have axis allocation under Axis1a and Axis2a. For example Roll would be in Axis1a and Axis2a in the DOF1 column with one Dir checked orange and the other not, which determines which way Roll moves. The DOF2 column could be Pitch while DOF3 column could be Heave. Traction loss, or yaw would be Axis3a, as that is normally a single motor or actuator.
  8. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Ok will do, just out at the moment, but bit of back ground on the system in the meantime ..basically it’s 2 x 2 dof systems..so 4 motors in total. 4 motors running off 2 separate arduinos, one board on com 3, and one board on com 5. Really just trying to figure out how to run two arduinos through sim tools.. hope that helps
  9. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Figured it out :)

    they should be...all working now

    Interface 1
    [A<Axis1a>][B<Axis2a>]

    Interface 2
    [A<Axis3a>][B<Axis4a>]
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  10. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Got everything working, after testing I think my worm gear motor for the yaw needs less speed and more holding power.. so I am going to swap a current motor

    https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html

    with this one

    https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/zd1631l-12v-70w-45-65-rpm-6-35nm-torque-right-angle.html

    So it arrived yesterday and then I looked at the plug and it has more than the two wires I am used to. I had a good look and saw this in the forums about grounding wiper motors.

    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/wiper-motor-mandatory-ground-isolation.25/

    Basically makes sense but I’m still new to multi meters and electronics in general and I don’t have a “buzzer” just a multimeter. So I can measure things but don’t know what the results mean and just need some help on interpreting the results, just don’t want to destroy my sabre tooth:)

    So trying to find out if the case is grounded as per topic.. I put one meter on the outside of the case (the gear case part) and the other on the 5 wire colored pins.

    Ii has 5 wires Green Blue Red Yellow and Black.

    The results are as follows

    Multi meter set to Ohms and 200

    RED - 32.3
    BLUE - 42.8
    GREEN - 40
    YELLOW - OL (no reading)
    BLACK - 0.4

    Then I put both meters on the metal case with the gears and got 0.4 - touching the motor case and the gear case I got the OL (no reading)

    In the motion dynamics info says

    "To connect these as a normal worm drive, hook the Negative to the chassis of the unit, and either the Green wire or Blue wire for low or high speeds"

    Going on that info is the ground the yellow? And what is the chassis? The seat frame or the motor case? or the magnets re grounding instructions?

    And then do I attached the black wire and the blue wire to the outputs of the sabretooth?

    If you need more info let me know and ill get into it and find out. Cheers

    Attached Files:

  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    No idea on the wiring for those motors, I have never used them, but Motion Dynamics should be able to advise.
  12. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    thanks @noorbeast

    Sent a detailed email with them at motion dynamics and the reply was lets say "out of their comfort zone".. so no go.

    All I'm after I guess is how say if you brought this motor, what would you do to figure out if its grounded and how to fix that... if possible from my pictures :)

    I followed @eaorobbie advice on the https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/wiper-motor-mandatory-ground-isolation.25/ FAQ page..

    I think I get it, but the pictures are to small and the detail of what he is doing is a bit to vague for me. I switched the multimeter to the sound buzz selection and then touched the case and the back plate of and a few other places around the motor and it makes a beep noise...which is a bad thing according to the guide. so I took the motor apart and there is the blue wire..(Fast) the red wire (slow) and a lone copper wire that is attached to a magnet also.. I'm assuming that is the one to be cut?

    then like he says solder a wire to that magnet? then he says you are done... but where does that wire you just soldered on go?

    FYI the black wire is also screwed to the back plate as well.

    sorry if this sounds very basic... I'm just not experienced with this, as all my other motors have been easy with just 2 wires. Just dont want to blow up my expensive sabretooths. Hoping this will help others as well.

    Cheers

    Attached Files:

  13. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Finally Figured it out,(with the help of a certified aircraft tech friend) prob really really basic for others but I have no idea, even like what a brush does in a motor (do now) and found out how to use a multimeter much better (didnt even know it had a buzz function to tell if a wire or any metal connected is "electrically" connected to one another.) this is called Continuity by people who know what they are doing.

    So for the other people out there that have little or no back ground in this hobby of ours... heres my take for figuring out what to do with a wiper motor vs a purpose built worm gear motor that has only neg and pos connections.

    Firstly since the motor I brought had like 5 wires coming put of it I had to figure out which ones actually moved the motor. (link to motor here https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/zd1631l-12v-70w-45-65-rpm-6-35nm-torque-right-angle.html)

    I did this by getting a 12v power supply and connecting the black to ground and then touching the other wires one after another to see which ones moved the shaft. (found the blue was fast speed and red was slower speed and yellow and green are something that I have no idea about so they got cut and shrink wrapped. So I was left with the black / red and blue wires)

    So like @eaorobbie mentions in his grounding wiper motors tutorial https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/wiper-motor-mandatory-ground-isolation.25/

    1. You have to check for grounding issues ... did this by getting my multi meter and selecting a "sound signal" on the meter (see pic below..)

    2. then touch the case of the motor (in various places) and also touch a wire end (start with the black wire).. if you hear a beep.. then its not grounded properly.. then proceed to do the same test with the case and the blue and then the red.. if you are getting beeps then no good.

    3. Ok now take the shield case off the motor. unscrew it ..look for any connecting metal tabs that hold the motor to the gear box and then pull the case off (because the case has magnets in it as you remove it it will likely pull the spinning part of the motor out so be careful. ( you should now see the inside of a motor like pic below, with the blue red and "braid" wire.

    4. Cut the braid wire close to the case so you still have some connected to the brush (easier to solder on a wire now)

    5. Now you will need the black wire..on this motor it was coming out of the gearbox and screwed into the rear shield of the gear box) I just cut the black wire completely off close to the gear box and shrinkwrapped the end) All I was left with was a loose cut black wire with a terminal connector on one end.

    6. I then soldered the cut end to the braid so the black wire is now connected to the brush and shrink wrapped it together. ( see pic below)

    7. then thats it...put it all back together (I managed to flit the black wire through the same port that the blue and reds wire exiting the motor case) and test with your "beeper" function on the multi meter (touch the case and then the end of a wire (black, red, blue) and make sure there are no beeps)

    then use the black and (in this case blue) as your - and + back to the motor driver as per normal (Note:I had to change the polarisation of this motor (swapped the + and - wires back to the driver) from the older motor I had.

    Attached Files:

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  14. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Had a weird situation with one of the feedback lines in SMC3 utility. Everything was working fine, and motor 1 still works fine.

    however now when I use the manual function to check movement in the SMC3 on motor 2 it moves left with the feedback line and back to up to center. (perfect) Then when I want to go up, to move the motor to the right, the feedback line stays in the center and does not move up with the target line.
    I have tried switching polarisation which sent everything away fro the line. so thats definitely the wrong way. Also when I de-couple the pot and twist it with my hand the feedback line goes smoothly either side. so the pot seems to be fine.

    heres a video showing what happens. Any ideas on what to test for?

    Attached Files:

  15. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Solved it... the PWMax was not strong enough to push it to the other side... lol
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