1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Question GS-5 vs DIY G Seat

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Will0214, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi forum,

    I'm looking to get a G Seat, either buy a GS-5 or build one myself. But I have not decided on which route to go with, so I need your help.

    The biggest question I have is about software. Simtools is a great software with lots of flxibility. It gets raw data from games and normalize it. In sim commander, there is another option to kinda extrapolate the data from games. Just wondering how the feedback provided by simtools compared with that from sim commander? I'm assuming the control of the actuators is equal. Correct me if this assumption is far off.

    I did read this post, https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/simtools-vs-sim-commander-how-do-they-compare.6055/. Simtools had a clear win? But it has been over 5 years.

    As for my DIY plan, I'm going to use nema 23 steppers with 3nm together 10:1 reduction gears, which should provide more torque than GS-5 does; use door hinges to attach panels to the seat; use rods and rodends to connect the steppers to the panels. Other parts can be 3D printed. The whole design looks simple. The total cost should be well within $1000. (So $3k for GS-5 is kinda a lot, considering the hardware costs. Guess they put a lot of dev time on software lol)

    So people with experience with both GS-5 and DIY G seat please let me your thoughts. Which route will you go performance wise? I don't mind spending a little more money on GS-5 or a lot more time on a DIY project lol.

    Thanks,
    Will
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    17,088
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    124,062Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,720 / 47 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I can't comment on sim commander, as I have no reason to use it.

    SimTools has had further version updates since that initial; comparison thread, which for some hardware like JRKs increases responsiveness further as there was a switch to the native API, for others it has been more about refinement and more options, one of those upgrade changes has been an increase in the number of DOF axis (12), so you can run a 6DOF with a G-Seat.

    See existing GS5 threads for user views and comments:

    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/gs-5-review.12663/

    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/troubleshoot-sfx-and-gs-5.14343/

    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...-seat-gbelt-to-interface-with-simtools.15640/

    FlyPT is another possible option, if you go down the DIY path: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/flypt-mover.29/category
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  4. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Thanks for the reply!

    I plan to use the serial connection with arduino. (Actually, I've set it up already lol) Yes, extensibility is a huge win for simtools. I can see how easily we can add an extra axis.

    I'm leaning towards to simtools obviously lol. Just need confirmation from someone has experience with both that DIY seat can do as well as commerical ones if not better.
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    17,088
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    124,062Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,720 / 47 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The existing threads should be helpful re GS5 views.

    Another consideration is the number of games supported, which is wide ranging for SimTools.
  6. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
  7. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    1,985Coins
    Ratings:
    +197 / 0 / -0
    My personal opinion is a strong vote for flypt mover and brushless servos. The performance will significantly outweigh anything else out there. Spend a little more and do it once with the servos vs steppers.

    Control it with cubexxx arduino code or simpler Thanos board. Check the thread in my signature for my experience. The first post has links to others work in this realm as well.
  8. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    1,985Coins
    Ratings:
    +197 / 0 / -0
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  9. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    thanks, cfischer! I've saw your videos on youtube. That's impressive, and the same for Rowan's project.

    I've read through Rowan's blogs and designed my own by removing the belts and rods that seemed caused issues for him. I read through the other one as well. While impressed, it seems over engineered to me.

    I saw your post before, it just show extensible a DIY seat can be, really impressed. I'll definitely read through your thread(it's long lol) and am pretty sure I'll get more insights.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Looked a little in flypt mover site, it's very educative! Thanks for the good pointer!

    I'm building a prototype with only back flaps and steppers(3Nm) with 5:1 gearbox. I did feel the buzzing from the steppers (maybe tunning matters here? , as people reviewed GS-5 did not mention that) The torque seems enough with 5:1 (definitely not enough for heavy brakers or for bottom flaps), but I ordered a 10:1 to see it would smooth out the steps.

    Servo's cost like 3x of steppers in US. If I were still in China, I won't even consider steppers lol.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  11. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    my very simple (maybe naive design). Please comment below if you have suggestions. Thanks! WechatIMG11.jpeg WechatIMG10.jpeg
  12. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    1,985Coins
    Ratings:
    +197 / 0 / -0
    Looks like you're well on your way. The motor mount, gearbox, crank, and link design is the same as mine. Looks good. I will be interested to know what you think of the buzzing from the steppers. Also lets see some videos when the time is right!

    Gseats are the way!

    What was your business in china if you dont mind me asking...
  13. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    My initial thought is that it's the inhereted characteristic of the steppers. They turn in 1.8 deg a step. With reduction gearbox, it might help? We'll see when I get the gearboxes.

    I'm Chinese lol and was in China last year, but I have a job in US and just came back earlier this year assuming the pandemic would be over soon. but you know lol
    • Like Like x 1
  14. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    1,985Coins
    Ratings:
    +197 / 0 / -0
    I've often wondered what it would be like to build a motion sim in china with all the value and services, especially in cities with big manufacturing market places.
  15. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    you mean as a business or DIY project?

    It's a heaven for DIYers! Parts are conveniently available and also cheap. (For the AC servo's we are using, it's $130 brand new shipped and quality linear actuators(150mm) cost like $250 each, and even cheaper for used one. I built an OSW under $150 lol) For shelf products, I can order it today and get it tomorrow. For custom orders, it's usually a week turnaround.

    As a business, I don't know much. But I guess most will be exported now, e.g. PT actuactors. With complete industry ecosystem, things we need to build a sim are mostly likely have been used in industry, e.g. the stewart platform and it's not expensive. Guess the most difficult thing is to find the right marketplace and deal with international shipping.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    1,985Coins
    Ratings:
    +197 / 0 / -0
    Yeah I just mean as a diyer. For all the projects I do. Would be awesome.
  17. Will0214

    Will0214 New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    Messages:
    17
    Occupation:
    Software Development Engineer
    Location:
    Seattle & Hangzhou
    Balance:
    79Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    From DIY's perspective, China might be the best place to live in lol. I miss the accessiblity to parts and manufacturing services a lot.