1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Full Frame 2 DOF + Traction Loss new build

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Halloween2go, May 20, 2020.

  1. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi all! Here is my new Rig so far. I am still in the process of building but wanted to post some of this and get some help with JRK 12v12’s I bought but here is a little background -So when the OCULUS CV1 came out, I bought one and that was all she wrote for my triple monitor setup. And things were great until I came across this forum. I finally decided I had to build one of these. I had several windshield wiper motors, Arduino UNO’s and some 10k pots from a guitar amp laying around from other projects and so I ordered some IBT-2’s and downloaded the software to see if I could get it to work. I decided to simply use an old 12V battery to power the motors for now.
    3DOF RIG C.JPG
    Yes, it seemed to work fine, so I read several posts and finally decided to design a RIG like AVENGA76 except make it a full frame. I figured the windshield wiper motors probably were going to be too weak so I ended up ordering the crab pot motors from ebay and hall effect POT’s from DIGI-key and a pack of 3/8” four link tie rod ends from amazon. IMG_1730.JPG So here's some photos start to now..
    Also, I bought one of those Harbor Freight 120amp flux core welders because I did not want to make it out of wood. One other handy item was an angle grinder with cut off and flap discs. The 1 ½ tubing came from Home depot, which was a lot more expensive at retail, than if I purchased the steel on line, but I was pretty excited to be doing something, rather than waiting for a shipment.
    20200118_142905.jpg
    It took a few weekends to weld up the seat frame and mid frame. It also took some time to mount the motors. After I got the seat mounted and temporarily positioned the Logitech driving force steering wheel and pedals (yeah I know.. they are pretty old), My wife started referring to this ever growing project as ‘my car’.
    IMG_0028.JPG
    Mid frame (which will have the motors mounted to it) and the seat frame welded up and used U joint I cut down with the angle grinder. IMG_0032.JPG
    In the beginning I found the relative center of gravity by sitting in the chair and temporarily positioning the wheel, pedal set and extra steel for the seat back while balancing everything on a wooden dowel. I'm pretty close to COG, and the seat is slightly adjustable rearward so I should be ok.
    IMG_0214.JPG
    I figured the seat might need some strengthening so I used 1 inch square to mock up the rear part of the seat frame. IMG_0229.JPG
    I added some thin gussets to handle flex and some tabs at the top of the seat frame to connect the Tie Rod ends. Although you think you can build something like this quickly, you probably can't or at least I could not. I only seem to have time to work on the Rig on Saturday's . This is about three weekends in.. IMG_0240.JPG
    The project started to take up some room in the garage.. I got some 'looks' from my wife after a while so i figured i should probably re-organize the garage to make it 'appear' we had more room than we actually do.
    IMG_0287.JPG
    But First things First, I needed to build a stable platform for the steering wheel. Note that I live in the USA so we get in and out of our cards on the left side, so I constructed one of the 1" square tube supports at an angle so that I can get IN and OUT of the Rig with no obstructions.
    IMG_0339.JPG
    Ok, The BIG motors (crab pot pullers from Canada) have not arrived yet, so I Mocked up the windshield wiper motors.. God, they look so small!! Anyway, it's Mid March now and the Pandemic has hit.. so I started ordering all my other parts to get this running.. Even though I have the IBT-2H bridges - I ordered three of them and somehow, China sent me SIX... Thanks for that anyway.. I did order two POLULU JRK 12V12 controllers to see how much better they would be than these IBT-2's
    IMG_1146.JPG
    When the 50:1 crab pot motors arrived, I tapped the hole with a 1/2 inch tap and a lot of oil. IMG_1327.JPG
    I used a 5 inch by 1/2 inch bolt to weld my 4 inch levers on and drilled out a hole in the end so that I could connect the 10k hall effect Pot to. IMG_1148.JPG The lever was welded to the end of the bolt, and then screwed into the tapped motor hole. IMG_1289.JPG
    Mocked up both motors.. Attempting to take some forum advice with a 5 degree outward angle.. IMG_1330.JPG
    I had to weld in an 'X' out of 1/2 inch square tubing to brace the motors as the mounts flexed a lot without it. Now it's rock solid. I also tilted the motors a bit inward so that that I could eliminate a lot of the Tie Rod end clearance issues. I have not really seen this done on the forum yet (but i have not read all posts !) It's just a way that i came up with to deal with clearance issues. IMG_1329.JPG
    A closer view of my work. The 'X' support and my 10 k hall effect pots. IMG_1342.JPG
    I inserted a large nail into the hole in the bolt, a section of tubing between the nail and the head of the 10k hall effect pot. The tubing, which i previously used in Halloween Animatronic pneumatic props seemed to work fine and should take up any issues between my 'drill press' hole and the mounting for the Pot. IMG_1344.JPG
    I made some small tabs to hold the Pot's.. They seem to work just fine!! So I decided to tear everything down and build a small holder to make it easier to fiddle with everything and the software. IMG_1345.JPG
    This is my 'test' platform for the motors so I could mess around with the Pots and everything along with the software so that I could have it all right at eye level.. instead of kneeling down on the concrete floor. Plus it allowed me to use my newly designed workbench.. +++ IMG_1519.JPG
    I gotta figure out how to post a video on this forum. I have videos of my motors moving along with the SMC3 software etc... Hope someone can let me know.
    Anyway, Here are the two IBT2 motor controllers, Arduino and my battery 'cut off' switch.. IMG_1521.JPG
    Side view of the motors and stuff. They are pretty strong when they are powered on even at 3/4 Pulse wavelength 180 and seem to capable of throwing me out of the Rig if when I put them over 220.
    I am running the motors off a used (mostly dead) truck battery.. it'can put out 12 volts for a couple laps and then it drops to about 10 volts.. I need to buy a new battery, and probably going to use a 'battery tender' 1 amp charger to keep it topped up. If anyone has used this type of arrangement, let me know. IMG_1520.JPG
    Here is a 'side view' before I started building the Traction Loss platform. IMG_1692.JPG
    Snapping a chalk line on the garage floor and using the carpenter square helped me get things about right. FYI, this is my first attempt at building, welding, drilling etc anything this wild, which will have to support me and not kill me.. so if I did something 'wrong' or weird, you can let me know but either way, it seems to work. ;) IMG_1700.JPG
    Here is the Traction loss frame.. without wheels. So now I had to mount the wheels etc.
    At some point in my life, I purchased eight skateboard wheels which I used to make a trac dolly for my Canon XL1s. Since I have not used that trac dolly in years, I unbolted the skateboard wheels (which have sealed precision bearings) and decided to mount them to the mid-frame. IMG_1712.JPG
    Here are the back four wheels. They look dirty because I was rolling them back and forth along the bare metal and freshly ground down tack welds.. Also the green thing is a bungy cord. I was watching a you tube video on sim racing and this guy recommended that if you connect these bungy cords to the back of your seat belts, when you slam on the brakes and the Rig tilts forward, you get a bonus sensation of the belts tightening up on you like it would in a real car. IMG_1732.JPG
    All eight wheels mounted.. And (aside from uploading any videos and my Oculus Rift headset not being recognized for some reason) At least the DOG is happy! So I have yet to build and mount my third motor - it's sitting in a box at the front of the Rig. BUT I just want to say that things are looking good so far. I am not sure what to do with the JRK 12V12's I have. They are sitting in a package waiting for me to do something with them.. Any help ?? Thanks for looking guys!!
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,088
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    111,189Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,995 / 43 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Nice work, thanks for sharing your project and completed rig :thumbs

    This is how you insert a video into a post: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/insert-a-video-into-a-post.257/

    You could sell the JRKs, as they are pretty expensive, but I would be tempted to either use the funds from their sale, or use them directly for telemetry driving your harness, or adding wind simulation.
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Well I bought the JRK's kind of because of you and Avenga.. They were about $70 each.. not a big deal especially cause they are just sitting on my bench .. I thought that they would be better than the IBT2's. I dont mind hooking them up if they will help these motors reach their potential.. I did not buy they Australian motion dynamics motors as this is my first project and shipping seemed higher than normal. So i would rather move over to those controllers if the gain, reliability or tune-ability is better than what I have now.
    Thanks for all your posts.. etc and your new project looks to be pretty dang nice!
  5. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform

    This is my first test of traction loss
    Asseto Corsa - Full frame motion platform

    It's not perfect for sure but I am getting there. A little wobble in the two other motors on the straight which I am trying to adjust (figure out)
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Still waiting for my RIFT CV1 fix.. Some type of headset update required .. I have a ticket opened with Oculus on it, so I was bored and mounted a TH8A shifter and a monitor to the full frame motion platform.
    Here is a test in Asseto Corsa with the KTM buggy at Silvertone..
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Here is a photos of how I mounted the Third Motor.. Crab pot motor with Hall Effect pot

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  8. Keith

    Keith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2020
    Messages:
    83
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Canada, Saskatchewan
    Balance:
    91Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    How long will your lever be for the traction loss motor?
  9. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi and thanks for the question. The lever is 5 inches center to center. I will try and post a couple photos later today.
  10. Keith

    Keith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2020
    Messages:
    83
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Canada, Saskatchewan
    Balance:
    91Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Nice. That will give you some nice travel. I went for around 5 inches travel each way. Still waiting for parts to get it all working though.
  11. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    I turned down most of the SIMTOOLS settings to get the rig running in a semi-sane manner.
    I Used the KTM Xbow car in Asetto Corsa as a test platform at Redbull ring short track.
    I turned everything down except SURGE to begin with So I could tell what was going on. Then I added traction loss and fiddled with the setting until I feel the car breaking loose the way it should.
    Next I added Just a bit of sway - Not much- (which I believe attempts to simulate lateral G by tilting the seat to the left or to the right - opposite of the direction you are turning the car).
    So it seemed to be good at this point so I saved everything and added just a bit of pitch (which I think is supposed to simulate going up a hill, or down a hill. I am pretty satisfied with progress today so I am posting my SMC3 settings for each motor and then the SIMTOOLS settings.
    After these photos I uploading a video of a test drive.
    Crab Pot Motor 1
    KP 404 Kd 10, Ks 5
    Fpwm 30khz, PWMMin 40, PWMmax 160, PWMrev 160
    upload_2020-6-26_16-30-11.png
    Motor 2 is the same as Motor one and Motor Three is the traction loss motor
    Here is Motor 3 settings.
    upload_2020-6-26_16-33-36.png
    Here are the Basic configuration I set for SimTools..
    upload_2020-6-26_16-35-3.png

    Here are the Axis Assignments to get the platform moving predictably.
    Surge 80, Pitch, Roll = zero and sway at 10
    upload_2020-6-26_16-35-50.png

    and paging to the right Axis 1a and 2A I have sway set at 10
    upload_2020-6-26_16-36-53.png
  12. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    I am just beginning to get some 'seat time' to figure things out. So I am adding forces one at a time and seeing what happens.
    Here are my Asseto Corsa settings (yes I have the main power level at 90)
    upload_2020-6-26_16-43-39.png

    I think that even though I have Roll set to 2.. I am probably not feeling it because I have ROLL set to zero in Simtools.. Anyone know if this would be true?


    upload_2020-6-26_16-44-14.png

    I am also trying to understand the Traction Loss section.. I think I got it to work the way it should
    upload_2020-6-26_16-46-36.png
  13. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Here is a video with my latest "TEST" run.. LOLA T3 at the ring GP
    I mounted a small monitor to the motion platform
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,088
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    111,189Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,995 / 43 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Great to see your rig in action :thumbs

    Doing a motion profile includes a fair bit of personal preference, but here are some comments for you to ponder.

    Doing one axis at a time is the right way to go: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    However you want to keep in mind that the total Axis Allocation should total around 100%, you can go a bit over say up to 130% depending on the rig, but not way over or you will likely cause clipping: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/axis-assignment-percentage-totals.120/

    So when testing one axis at a time the Axis Allocation should be reasonable and I would think your surge allocation is way too high and sway too low.

    You first need a good base profile, and that should be done with a mid range car at a reasonable track, with main power level at 100%. A Game Manger profile variation once you have a good base profile for all axis, say for a F1 car, may then drop the main power level to 90-94%
  15. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Well Happy Independence Day to the USA! I built some rollers to take the friction off the top of the racing harness and also modified the TH8A shifter to sequential.
    I really like how the rollers seem to work during hard braking.
    here is a short video
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    The Roller's I made are fantastic!.. I will post some photos when i get a chance!
    They are made from 3/4" conduit and some washers... you guys should give em a try!
    roller1.JPG
    Then I welded the washers to the conduit and greased them for rolling.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  17. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    roller2.JPG
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    The video show them working pretty good..
    On to the next issue.. which is..? not sure.. I have to keep driving I guess.!!!!
  19. Halloween2go

    Halloween2go Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Balance:
    390Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Ordered a ButtKicker Gamer and if it works good, I may order 3 more for 'chassis mode'.. I will post an update once I receive it. Also ordered a mini keyboard and a Trackball mouse to mount on the Rig for a more permanent solution than setting a standard keyboard and mouse on a chair next to the Rig.
    If anyone has any advice on the Transducer addition, please let me know..
  20. Keith

    Keith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2020
    Messages:
    83
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Canada, Saskatchewan
    Balance:
    91Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Nice work. The rollers seem like a great idea
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Squarebob

    Squarebob Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Georgia USA
    Balance:
    96Coins
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    4DOF
    I have been tuning mine constantly trying to get the "right" feel. You have built a fine rig. Enjoy the process.
    • Like Like x 1