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Beginner 1DOF traction loss on wiper motors

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Rifly, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    Hi All,

    I googled motion rigs and got here,
    It's my first try with DIY motion addition (I did tactile shaker-car amp myself) and am inspired to do more to my simrig so please, be gentle, but firm on recomendations. If my learning curve will improve I will aim to buitld sfx-100, but for now, wiper motors.


    Looked at this article and this what I managed to supply/order(30.01.20):

    It all starts with junk yard wiper motors one from bwm e36 and another one bmw e46, I hope sliding is in their blood.

    1x Playseat evolution
    1166896.jpg
    2x Wiper motors (for now I need one to work)
    20200130_210336.jpg
    1x Arduino Uno clone (ordered one spare)

    1x Monster Moto Shield VNH2SP30 stepper motor driver (ordered one spare)
    1x PC power supply - with on 29A 12v rail
    20200130_212944.jpg
    1x Wires to pin everything
    5x 10k omhs Potentiometers
    pots.png

    If my understanding is correct at this point I have to manage hardware stage - (mounts) and software - and no I havent done any of that before, but my luck is with you guys, right ;)
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  4. WS786873

    WS786873 New Member

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    I also want to build a 2DOF seat and look forward to your update.
  5. Retro77

    Retro77 Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    You may not get great results with two different motors. They may not be geared the same and will move at different speeds. And yes the grounds will both need to be isolated.
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  6. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Part 2 - 19.03.2020 - covid-19 :confused::(:eek: (slowed down everything )
    1 dof traction loss seemed more difficult than 2dof hence change of direction

    Before getting parts I managed to fail building platform twice - and thats even without motors...
    Now I got - e46 driveshaft, Arduino Uno, MotoMonster, pots, pot couplers, rod end joint bearing, and lots of wires I began process once more.
    1. Pre-soldered pots and got them into angles
    2. Wired Arduino and MM - uploaded sketch - SMC3
    3. Hard part - wires from arduino kit failed, and I was looking into other stuff while troubleshooting so now I soldered tips to thicker wires,
    4. Mounted motors on plywood boards, conected all and also got my playseat on it

    next will be movement tests - now I have everything so chop chop :nerd

    pots_prewired.jpg arduino_mm_wired.jpg mounting.jpg e46_drive_shaft.jpg playseat.jpg seat on.jpg
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  7. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Part 3 - 21.03.2020 - IT'S ALIVE
    Learned a lot and got lots of ideas to continue

    Got everything together, now I had 2 main issues mainly power to the motors and software tuning.
    Lots of info on MotoMonster bridge wiring thank you! About MM - cooling is a must - had small aluminium blocks on them to begin with but with bridge wiring added fan to keep all cool (without it got hot to touch).
    fans.jpg

    To get movement I followed SMC3 guide and here are my settings for today (since Im still newbie they change often)
    SMC3.png
    Once it was done - downloaded Simtools + LFS game, and began motion testing and tuning.
    Sounds cool but it was more like - learning programm, youtube video research, and lots of reading here. At this point this is where I got.(had to learn new words ex. - surge, pitch. added image for fellow no native english speakers )
    simtools.jpg

    At last I have motion video on cam ;) -


    What I learnt so far -
    1. I got myself too high and am wobbly (rebuit in plans)
    2. Wiper motors are too weak for my weight and that amplitude of movements (ordered new ones)
    3. I need different pot's, these are too noisy and not that precise.
    4. on video it is visible how many loose spots I have, video is a must for diagnostic work

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  8. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Plans for the nearest future - rebuilt it - lower, with less free play, with bigger motors+ traction less capable upgrade path. For now I'm happy I got here, thanks to xsim community, my friend who donated stuff necessery for built and aliexpress:grin
    :cheers
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  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Like many before you down the sim building rabbit hole you go, building on your own experiences and those of others, it can be as rewarding as using the finished rig ;)

    [​IMG]
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  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Check your coin balance, and please add more to your thread when you have some plugins sorted :popcorn
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  11. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Thank you hug:

    So where do I begin, lets start with saying Project Cars 2/Dirt rally 2.0 gave back more feeling of the road surface and feedback overall. Here is classic race Monza with proper online community - madness was most likely because of quarantine :D

    Weirdly but it felt too much of movement and yet not enough feel -for example - weight transfer. In total i didn't do more than 1h of driving but it definitely was more fun :thumbs I cant say I'm quicker with so much going on, but it was exciting :D I even got sligtly dizzy at the end.

    Did some small changes here and there to reduce wobble and get more precise feedback
    1. Swapped playeseat to junkyard bmw seat (together with bmw wiper motors build is now complete:grin)
    It seats 20cm lower, so without cutting I got myself lower to reduce my 95kg inertia upstairs.

    2. Shortened push rod arms (less side to side wobble)
    arms_shorter.jpg
    3. places arduino+MM into electric box
    cleaner_look.jpg
    4. moved base support inward planned to shorten(cut) whole thing to make it more compact, but changed my mind since this is proof of concept and that I can make stuff, I will plan new frame from ground up (obviously borrowing ideas from here)
    wider_support.jpg
    5. Added transducers for more immersion on small details.
    transducers_2.jpg transducers.jpg

    All that has been done was really budget friendly I have not spent more than 135e :nerd, lots was given to me for free(motors, wood bases, drive shafte and other) and lots was reused materials from shed. Once I will plan proper frame, playseat will be sold and money moved toward it plan to make it more compact, but for a while will enjoy this one, oh, while I wrote this sentence remembered that two wheelchair motors are incoming soon (+140e for them), so more will be done to this poor frame :eek:
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  12. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    And where did I spend money was actually tools 100e+ on them, but hey they will be needed in future diy :cheers
  13. dieser

    dieser Member

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    hey rifly!
    great idea to shorten the rod arms!
    are you feel a big difference?

    would love to see a updated video with the improvements you made.

    continued success with your build buddy!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I can't say it's massive, but it is clear win, main issue now is flex in board itself, I'm wobbling, since seat is moved to the rear to unload wiper motors, but its trade off +/- motors feel better/less precise feedback, overall I'm smiling while race because am getting new feels of track, I must add, Im not quicker since battling motion and training core :D on it, I think new motors and sturdier frame would sort this out.

    I will make an updated video friday :cool:
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  15. dieser

    dieser Member

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    ok, thanks for the information!

    you making progress, that is what counts!

    beginner question, because we are both building a 2dof mover:

    how you figured out the right smc3 parameters?
    i haven‘t started simtools yet, and just followed the instructions in the smc tutorial thread...

    are you switching from simtools to smc tool to change parameters?

    thanks again! ;)
  16. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    1. Im more or less there:
    a) my pots are slightly better than the cheapest ones there, so I've set dead-zone to 3
    b) have issues with motor over-heating too much even with fans if I drive them too hard, so at this point I have two ways to help them, in smc3 - look image - safe for me, settings in red are fun but overheat wihout proper fans (1h playtime and jumping back and forth with intensity)
    Smc3_settings.png

    2 . followed tutorial in smc thread - worked!
    3.
    To give motors easier time in simtools I change 2 things even with these setting it feels crazy, when I set 91% on axis and 100% intensity its definitely fun, but motors heat up too quick and it's harder to drive :confused: safe and normal for me is 80% axis and 20-30% intensity, with proper active cooling you can drive motors harder
    simtools.png

    Im still jumping back and forth for fine tuning, tomorrow hopefully will get wheelchair motors, and tuning will begin again :nerd

    P.S. Since you are making seat mover motors will be less stressed and you could drive them harder without same penalty as me.
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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  17. dieser

    dieser Member

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    wow, this is so helpful!
    thank you!!! :)

    this is the most helpful community i‘ve ever seen, just great!
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  18. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @dieser as promised video with long arms vs short and gameplay with settings displayed in smc3


    For me playtime before motors get hot is 40-60min, my weight is 95kg, and top platform is not lightest, but when my friend played (65kg) - 30min and motors were slightly warm, so a lot depend on how you load them :nerd



    New motors are here :o:, Saturday they will replace wiper ones, luckily shaft height is the same so it's direct swap.
    replacement motors.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  19. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Got wheel chair motors and it seems they have less torque than wiper motors because they stall after going down. I gave manual load/pressure to check stall current and they fail after resisting just to 5-7v
    What I already did:
    1) Added power in SMC3
    fail.png
    2) Cranked from 13.2 to 14.8v supply voltage to add more juice
    3) Moved motors forward to give leverage
    Edit:
    4) Wired two H-bridged moto monsters to one motor, more resistance but still stalls
    5)
    Separated MM to two different psu - one rated 12v30A other one 12v41A - both cranked to 14.8V
    MotoMegatronMonster.jpg
    ^ with 2xMM it is nipier in mid lever settings, but once it drops lower than this (image) it's unable to come back

    20200329_003657.jpg
    Still fail, did get wrong gearboxes on them? Or 1 H-bridged MM can't give enough amps?
    @noorbeast
    All info I could find about motor -
    Wheelchair_info.png 20200329_004054.jpg
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Have you redone your SMC3 settings to optimise them for the new motors?
  21. Rifly

    Rifly Member

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    I gave to it all the power there is I would event say to excessive amounts.
    smc_power_up.png