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Any Way to Reduce Noise of SCN6 Actuators?

Discussion in 'Motor actuators and drivers' started by Lasagna Smoothie, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hello,

    I'm considering purchasing a Prosimu T1000, however, the squeak of the actuators is putting me off it a bit. It doesn't really bother me personally per-say, but if I were to move into an apartment I could see it potentially being an issue. One of the things I really like about the d-box systems is just how quiet the actuators are - the downside being they cost about ten times as much as the SCN6 actuators.

    Accordingly, I was wondering if anyone was aware of a way to reduce the noise of the SCN6s? Perhaps attaching some sort of acoustic foam to the outside of the actuators? I came across a site selling SCN6 actuators with an option for noise cancelling foam.

    Does anyone know how this foam is applied to the actuators? Perhaps something that's sprayed/attached to the interior of the actuators. Thanks in advance for any insight.
  2. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    I have not seen anyone wrap scn actuators with anything for noise dampening.
    I would be worried they may over heat?

    More than the little squeak thou, is that allot of scn frames tend to send a bit of vibrations into the floor.
    I would say quite a bit of vibrations, if the motors are directly in contact with the floor. (like the one you describe)
    I have even seen these types of builds, where the motor arm actually leaves the floor for split second when the movement is faster than he chair can fall forward.
    Not great if your in an apartment I would think.

    Nothing a piece of MDF sprayed with truck bed liner wont fix thou. (well for vibrations anyway, not the jumping motors)
    I sprayed the base of my old simulator with truck bed liner, and I could play all night without the wife ever waking up.

    pic0.jpg

    It helped a ton.

    yobuddy
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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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  4. abs

    abs Active Member Gold Contributor

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    hello , I agree with yobuddy you regarding dampening , jumping rig etc.
    I had good results playing with the position of the universel joint and the angles of the actuactors.
    the rig is dampened with rubber feet and base. a perfect angle and perfect position of the pivot heps a lot reduce stress on the rods. reduce as much as possible torque on rods of the actuators. you need linearity as in pic from yobuddy. torque on rods translate in a significant stree on gears of the actuator.
    in that pic, the actuators are aligned with the axis of the 8020 with bracket . mine is built in a similar way.

    the squeak could be reduiced of about 50 per cent

    I tried to upload pics but I cant. sorry
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  5. crammy

    crammy Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My current rig is similar to a prosimu t1000 5dof. when i first set it up it was very noisy as i had a lot of movement on the actuators. They also got extremely hot. I have now changed them to short movements, and i personally prefer it. it feels a lot more snappy and faster. the actuators are a lot quieter and they don't even get warm. Short movements are more of a chirp, but long movements are the constant squeal.

    I am currently building a new rig so the actuators are upside down and then boxed in so i shouldn't get and noise at all.
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  6. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Noorbeast,

    Thanks for posting those links. Prodigy certainly did an excellent job constructing those sound deadening boxes. They really seem to do the trick too.

    It would be a bit undertaking for me because I plan on purchasing the 5-DOF T1000, so I'd have to construct boxes for five actuators rather than just two. Also, I'm not sure if there's much clearance around the traction-loss actuator, so it may not be viable to put a box around that one. Still, definitely something to consider. Thanks!
  7. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @yobuddy,

    Thanks so much for your post. I agree about wrapping the actuators possibly causing an over-heating issue. It makes me wonder about how that company I mentioned applied the sound deadening foam. Perhaps I'll have to e-mail them.

    That's an awesome solution you found for minimizing the downward vibrations. At the moment I don't have anyone under me, so I don't think it will be much of an issue, but it's certainly something to keep in mind if my circumstances change. Thanks again!
  8. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi abs,

    Thanks for your post, and no worries about the pictures - I appreciate you making the attempt. I don't think the actuator angles will really be much of an issue since the prosimu T1000 just has the actuators at 90-degree angles with the floor, similar to d-box. However, if I transition to a rig such as yours or yobuddy's all definitely take what you posted into close consideration. Thanks!
  9. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi crammy,

    Thanks a bundle for your post. Changing the actuator settings to short movements is an excellent idea. I don't have the T1000 at the moment, but as soon as I do I'll definitely make a comparison between short and longer movements in terms of noise output. I'll be using mainly VR, so short, precise movements are probably the way to go anyway. It sound like your upside down actuator solution is an awesome idea. I'll be curious to see it in action. Thanks so much!
  10. crammy

    crammy Active Member Gold Contributor

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  11. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    That's a really creative solution to the noise problem and extremely cool looking as well! It looks a bit like the captain's chair out a spaceship. It should look awesome once it's done.
  12. Mats

    Mats New Member Gold Contributor

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  13. crammy

    crammy Active Member Gold Contributor

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    @Mats i may have a play when i get a chance. i dont have a prosimu, as i built my own and the actuators are boxed in upside down on a frame so dont make too much noise. I have one thats noisy but its more of a rubbing noise, and not the chirping sounds
  14. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Mats,

    Thank you VERY much for passing that information along to me. I really appreciate it. At the moment, my T1000 is out of commission - I have a faulty actuator and I'm waiting on a replacement. However, as soon as I have things up and running again I'll give your settings a try and let you know how it goes. Thanks again!

    Best,

    Ryan
  15. Mats

    Mats New Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Ryan,

    Have you built sound proof boxes for the actuators and dampening The ProSimu1000 frame ? (Including The tracktion loss H-Frame)

    There is "no need" for a sound proof box for The tracktion loss actuator for traction loss axis (The sound levels is quite low)

    The tracktion loss H-Frame and the ProSimu1000 frame rings like a bell without the dampening..
    Also isolate the ProSimu1000 from sending vibrations into the floor is recommended.

    The key for me was dampening/isolation and adjusing the Servo Gain for the actuators.
  16. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Mats,

    I haven't built sound proof boxes for the actuators nor dampened the frame. My ProSimu is "stock", so to speak. Regarding the sound proof boxes, that sounds like a great idea, but I'm a little concerned that there may be a heating issue with such an arrangement. I've noticed that the actuators generate quite a bit of heat, and I'm a bit worried that enclosing them could cause overheating. However, this may not be an issue as I've had them get quite hot to the touch and they've never gone into thermal shutdown or anything like that. I assume this hasn't been an issue for you?

    Would you by any chance be willing to post some pictures of your improved T1000? I have a pretty good idea of what you're talking about, but it would be awesome to get a look at just what you've done. It would also really help me out if I decide to make some similar modifications of my own. If not, no worries. Thanks again for chiming in with your thoughts, I really appreciate it.
  17. Mats

    Mats New Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Ryan!

    I maybe can post some pictures later,

    I was also concerned about a heating issue..
    My actuators don´t generate much heat, but i have the acceleration in game engine to 75-100 and speed 10000.
    Anyway, i have no other choice.... "must have" the sound proof boxes. and i take my chances.
    I hope the motors don´t "Burn up" or the actuators fail, but haven´t had any problems or overheating issues.
    Nowadays i have no worries, If the actuators fail, I try something else.

    I wanted to reduce the weight of the sound proof boxes so i didn't used any MDF for this.
    I builded the boxes only with dampening material (30 mm) and gaffer tape. (There is air around the actuators, NOT a tight box)
    The dampening material is used for cars, Hoods, boats, caravan etc. Made Of foam plastic. Provided with surface layers of aluminized polyester film.
    There are so many different options regarding dampening materials, I'm sure you find a good option at your local shop.

    The black Prosimu T1000 Frame i damped like this:
    1. Rubber and bitumen mat for the black "Wings" for the actuators.
    2. Rubber under under the pedal mount.
    3. bitumen mat on the lower part where you attatch your steering wheel. (Try knock with your fist, and you will find the place that rings/resonates)

    The tracktion loss H-Frame:
    1. I used dampening material for Hi-Fi Speakers builds, Inside the halo tube construction. (Cut small pieces, and use a long stick to pack the dampening material)
    2. Rubber mat (For Cars, Cut pieces) attached with cable ties around the H-Frame (Only the top and sides, There is no clearance for the lower part towards the floor)

    Floor isolation:
    To reduce vibrations into the floor i have built a MDF plattform this "Floats" on Rubber feets. (Same size as the "Prosimu" mat)
    On top of the MDF plattform i have a "trainer dampening mat" then the "Prosimu" mat.

    Just for testing..
    Roll up a few magazines and then plugg them into each end of the H-Frame.
    Then place a pile of magazines on each "Wing" for the actuators. and some magazines under the pedal mount (throttle and brake)
    You will be surprised how much this reduces noise levels.

    One more thing, On top of the red tracktion loss H-Frame where the "holes" for the actuators "Pin/rod" (In your case four holes, Two in the front and two at the back/rear)
    This is where you placed the "black dampening material" from Prosimu.

    I have placed some extra rubber 3-5mm (Still experimenting regarding this) This is also very good for reduceing noise levels!
    To get access to the dampening without lifting the Prosimu T1000 Frame from the tracktion loss H-Frame i do like this:

    1.Start the game engine->Axis testing. bring up/Lift one the actuators to maximum.
    2.Take a piece of MDF or use a pile books, then place this between the red tracktion loss H-Frame and the black actuator "Wing"
    3.Lower/Bring down the Axis/actuator to lowest position.
    4.Now that "Wing" is supported with the books or MDF you used, Now you have access to the dampening.
    5.Repeat for a four four corners.
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  18. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Mats,

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH for that very detailed reply. I really appreciate you taking the time and energy to post it. It sounds like you have some excellent ideas for reducing the sound of the T1000. I'd love to see a video of your rig in motion to get a sense of just how much you've managed to reduce the sound/vibrations. But just like with the photos, absolutely no pressure.

    I'm happy to hear that the sound dampening boxes don't appear to cause a heating issue. As long as they're not super tight I don't suspect they'll cause a problem. Fortunately, at the moment, sound isn't too much of a problem for me as I have my T1000 in the basement of a house, however, it could become an issue in the future, and if so I definitely plan on trying out your solutions. I'll be sure to keep you posted if I decide to try them out. Thanks again!
  19. Mats

    Mats New Member Gold Contributor

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    Update, @Lasagna Smoothie

    Regarding the sound proof boxes.. Did some tests without them today..
    In my case they only reduces sound levels a little.. So, I will not use them anymore.
    Better safe than sorry.. regarding the heating issue.

    Dampening/isolation and adjusing the Servo Gain for the actuators with the Dyadic TBVST tool.
    Was the key to my success.
  20. Lasagna Smoothie

    Lasagna Smoothie Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi Mats,

    Thanks so much for that update. I'm actually rather happy the sound dampening boxes didn't turn out to be too important. I wasn't exactly relishing the thought of constructing them. As you mentioned, at least this way you won't have to worry about the heat. Interestingly enough, this website sells SCN6 actuators with sound dampening foam:

    http://diysim.com/products/actuators/dyadic-scn6-medium-force-nema23-class/

    It makes me wonder just how effective it is. I'll take your advice and play around with Dyadic's TBVST software. It's sounds like you've achieved some great results playing around with the servo gain etc. Thanks again!