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Showroom 2DOF motion base for Playseat

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Jymä, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    After moving the sim I took a new video :popcorn


    And these are the settings I have currently
    settings.jpg
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  2. bsft

    bsft

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    nice job.
    I can see twisting of the frame though. I can see movement at the motor arms to the frame, going side to side.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Yeah the wood twists a little but I guess it's not too bad. Do you know if the motor arms could be improved? It feels a little loose because of the side-to-side play. Stiffer ball joints or restricting their movement somehow?
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast Xsimulator Race Director Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Just a suggestion, you could consider reinforcing the timber with a metal tube frame and perhaps tie that into also stiffening the Uni joint mount.
  5. CalSim

    CalSim building things

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Well, it seems those motors are touching limits of monster moto

    I've got exactly same motors. 70A psu.

    I can set Kp at 400- even 600. but PWMmax will be 150-160

    PWMmax > 160 will shotdown PSU. (if @Jymä 47 A psu does, mine also does and it's 70A,)

    I really need to use PWMmax > 180, as speed and torque increases heavy in this range.

    Just checked Kp 250 and PWMmax 220, worked 2 minutes, PSU shutoff, but speed was HUGE and the spected pushing force exceeded.

    good work jymä
  6. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    If the PSU is shutting down IMO this is not a Arduino related issue.
  7. CalSim

    CalSim building things

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    Well I think i got misunderstood because i did not explain me well.

    Of course, we need bigger PSU's to raise PWMmax, Jymä uses PWMmax 150, i could not set it higher, PSU dropoff, just like him.

    I'm sure these motors are drawin too much. I had a second issue, and was that the mm forgets to send some direction changes on the motor, and nothing shoot down, all connected and ON. Just does not work until the target blue line reaches the green pot again, then it works. It also misses direction then fast changes, and works great and follows great on slow movements. There is a photo of the SMC3 graphic that shows my issue very well on the SMC3 thread. page 20 i think

    If monter motos are cuttin power at mid 40's AMPs, and this motor has a peak of 48Amps.... i'm starting to dubt about the mm being able to push the ZYT-90 at full.

    Need to test Kp80 and PWMmax 220 to tell this.

    Greets and thanks
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    If the MM are shutting down not initiated by SMC3 (p.ex target line) only a restart of SMC3 will reactive them. So IMHO they are not shutting down.
    Your motors have a peak of 48 A under foll load - does not mean the peak is all time peaking :). my winches have a peak of 120 A, of course they don't need so much tilting the seat so I think our configuration is very similar. A half-bridged MM supports up to 60 A peak, min. 30 A current load. Last but not least your MMs could be less quality units. We are discussing over more than one thread now...please post any issues in the SMC3 or in your thread. Thanks.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. CalSim

    CalSim building things

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    Yep I anwered in this thread too because Jymä has same motors than me and he uses PWMmax 150, cant more because of PSU shotdown, just like me. he might think its enough, i want more beause i know the mm can. See ya in other thread

    sorry!!
  10. speedchase

    speedchase New Member

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    I thank you for pointing me to this forum from your youtube video. I have scoured through the forum and still think your setup is the most optimal and easier to implement. I am still reading up on the basics and I have a couple of questions and hope you can help me with it based on your setup.

    1) Can you please confirm if you are using 2 computers - one for the game and the other one for feedback recycling (?). Please add to the list below. If you are using a 2nd computer, can I use Raspberry Pi for this?
    2) Where did you find the U-joint, the connecting hardware and the fabrication of the u-joint with that metal plate? I think your setup is elegant compared to the bulky U-joints from car axles.
    3) Can you post a closeup picture of the joint between the motor and the potentiometer?

    The electronics:
    2x Motion Control UK 80rpm 60:1 worm gear motors 12V 23A
    2x Moto Monster H-bridge (1 for each motor)
    2x HP DPS-600PB 12v 47A PSU (1 for each Moto Monster)
    1x Arduino Uno R3 (with RufusDufus' SMC3 interface)
    2x Bourns 5k Cermet potentiometers
  11. speedchase

    speedchase New Member

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    Found the answer to my question about using Raspberry Pi for the 2nd computer. The answer I believe is no.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Hello
    I'm using the same computer for SimTools and games. My u-joint was cut from a steering axle of a truck, so it is a junk part too. This is the best closeup picture I have of the potentiometer bracket: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/attachments/img_4258-jpg.16703/

    It was basically cut and bent from sheet metal and has worked very well. It is fixed to the motor bracket with a single screw. You just have check that potentiometer isn't under stress when the motor is rotating (bracket is centered and doesn't bend).

    My sim has worked quite well, but I will probably make a new top frame from metal next summer (replacing Playseat). I want to make it lighter and with lower center of gravity to prevent any twisting and ease the load on motors and electronics. Maybe move the motors a bit closer to the u-joint as well. :)

    I also think that generally it might be wiser to start building with a seat mover. Moving a full frame requires heavier components and when you have just started building you may not want to invest fully in yet. For example in my case I bought weak motors at first and I had to buy stronger and now my PSUs are a little too weak. Building a seat mover is easier and you probably get better motion and less problems if some of the components happens to be a bit undersized.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  13. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Time to update the project. Guess what, not a single component has failed since 2014! :thumbs Only issues have been a cracked solder in one pot and some wear in bolts connected to motor axles.

    I have finished a new frame with a lot of improvements. Basically centre of gravity is lower, geometry is optimized for high torque, slow speed motors (they are closer to the u-joint) and ergonomics are better. I also added 2x bass shakers to the rig. About time to start using the updated Simtools and SMC3 code. Haven't tested the motion yet but I'm expecting a big improvement since everything feels much sturdier! Perhaps the only concern right now is if the PSUs can handle any higher power output. But that can be fixed by replacing PSUs or maybe by doubling PSUs and Moto Monsters ;).

    IMG_20170628_001357.png
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  14. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    I upgraded PSUs and made a stand for 40" uhd TV. Also today I received amp for bass shakers. Guess I won't buy any other software and just wait for GameVibe. Still having little issues with Moto Monsters and actually had the first pot failure last week. Moto Monster shutting down probably had something to do with it. Motor lever hit bottom so hard that threaded rod bent as well. That was an easy fix though. The sim is starting to look pretty complete, but still have to make a protective case for amplifier and try to tidy up the wiring a bit :D

    Rallipenkki_1.jpg
    Rallipenkki_2.jpg
    Rallipenkki_3.jpg
    • Like Like x 5
  15. 4pekatt

    4pekatt New Member

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    This is looking brilliant!

    Thanks for sharing this.
    I have a Playseat with Logitech controllers on, which I want to convert to 2DOF myself.
    Is it okay if I follow your DIY for this?
  16. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks! Yeah, absolutely. I got inspiration from many other builds (some of them are linked in the first post). It's only nice if some decisions in my build can help other people as well.

    I think the frame is pretty successful. It's rigid and somewhat compact and has good ergonomics. Bass shakers transfer vibration nicely to the seat, but not much further. Also the stop button is in easy location and with short wires. My 2 cents would be that don't use that kind of PlaySeat setup I first had. It's unnecessarily big and heavy, and not that rigid actually. But it can me made a lot better by welding brackets and supports straight to it. I recommend these new HP DPS800 GB A power supplies. They are very powerful and cheap as used from old servers. As downsides these motors are a bit too juicy for dual Moto Monsters and maybe currently the u-joint is too far back (not exactly on the balance point). Overall I think this build is very good value. I haven't calculated the exact costs, but I think for me it was clearly under 1000€ total for the sim. And I mean everything in the picture except TV. I got a some of the parts very cheap as used though and a friend gave me the old Recaro seat. :cheers
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  17. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Interesting, Do you hit the kill switch with your foot or do you reach down ?
  18. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    I can hit it with either. I don't have seat harness, so it's easier to bend slightly and push it by hand. But it's only 20cm above the power supplies so wiring was easy. It's not connected to the power rail though, but to PSon/PSoff connectors, so longer wiring wouldn't be difficult that way either.
  19. 4pekatt

    4pekatt New Member

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    Thanks!

    I'm on a budget run, so I'll keep the existing Playseat-rig, but modify it for rigidity. I imagine aluminum floor, supported by aluminum profiles around. I'll get these cheap from a supplier I know very well :)

    Is the "Moto Monster" extension shields for the Arduino? And what component is doing the USB-translation so that the PC-software can do it's magic with integration towards different simulator games?
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast Xsimulator Race Director Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Best to start your own project thread and post questions on it, so that all information about your project is in one place.

    Have a look at the FAQs, there is a section that covers MMs, including warnings about cheap clones: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/motor-driver-for-arduino-compatible-controller.11/category

    And there are a range of code options for the Arduino, though start by checking out the SMC3 code, as it has a handy graphical application for configuration: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/arduino-code-for-use-with-various-hardware-and-simtools.31/