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Would these components be good for my first ever 2DOF sim build?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by 3333333333333333, May 20, 2019.

  1. 3333333333333333

    3333333333333333 New Member

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    Hello, I'm a newcomer to the world of motion simming. I'd like to build something to play car racing games and flight simming. I realise that to realistically feel the dynamics of flight you probably need more than 2DOF, but it's a compromise and I don't want to bite off more than I can chew for this first attempt. I'll probably do more cars than planes anyway...

    I already have the drivers seat out of a 7th gen Honda Civic which I got on freecycle in great condition. It's relatively heavy but it has good support and a bucket feel.

    I found this on amazon - an integrated pedal/wheel/seat frame made from tubular mild steel. Apparently it's 16kg. I don't know if this is too heavy, or if the material has other undesirable properties, but I was thinking I could mount the Honda seat to it, and then place the whole assemby on top of a universal joint from a car's drivetrain. I may have to do some welding :think

    Then I was thinking of connecting some linear actuators to this upper assembly using the tie-rods from some car's steering system.

    I'd ideally like it to be as compact as possible because I don't have tons of space. This made me lean towards mounting the motors to the front of the frame near the pedals. However if it's simpler and easier to do the "shoulder" style then I'll do what works.

    And then there's all the requisite power supplies and other gubbins.

    Is this a good plan? Is there anything I've missed or glaring problems with it?

    EDIT: I see the link I posted to Amazon is not working. If you search for "Hopopular Playseat Driving Simulator Cockpit" you should easily find the product I'm talking about.
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    A little bit of research is time well spent, so check out the FAQs: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/

    In particular the Design section: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/design-considerations-resources.24/category

    And use SimCalc to help you get your head around the trade off in Design Vs physics: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...e-linear-speed-and-forces-of-your-design.270/

    You can get into more specifics in the Build section: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/building-resources.12/category
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. 3333333333333333

    3333333333333333 New Member

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    Woah this is looking a lot more complicated and expensive than I had anticipated.

    Having looked at the links, some questions remain:

    * The seat I got is an actual car seat and weighs something like 25-30kg. Is this prohibitively heavy for the kinds of designs featured in these links? They mostly seem to use what look like light-weight racing seats.

    * I definitely can't build anything more than a 2DOF (I think even that will be very tricky), which is fine because I mostly want to simulate cars. But is that totally useless for flight sim? Or is it better than nothing? I understand it won't be able to replicate the feel of many flying maneuvers or large changes in orientation, but is it at least somewhat useful to have a little pitch and roll simulated? Or is it just a waste of time, and you might as well switch it off for flight simming?

    Thanks.
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The less mass to move the better, but be realistic about costs and if the car seat works for you then design and power the rig accordingly.

    A 2DOF is a great first step for racing and flight. Keep in mind a motion sim job is to trick the brain, not 1:1 replicate real world forces, and often a little bit of well tuned movement is all that takes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_simulator
  5. 3333333333333333

    3333333333333333 New Member

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    Thanks, that also made for interesting reading. If I'm understanding correctly, motion simulators use clever tricks that exploit our psychology and physiology to give the user a sensation of a particular movement, without subjecting them to the exact forces that would be acting on them in the plane or car.

    So for instance, if you're performing a virtual loop de loop in the flight sim program, but your motion simulator doesn't have the full range of motion to rotate you into an upside-down orientation (I guess only the most expensive and elaborate motion simulators can do this), you can still convey something of the feeling by having your seat pitch upwards, as far as it is able to?

    Presumably the calculation of the "washout filters" and whatnot is performed by the x-simulator/simtools software package, and all I have to do is supply the computer with position value of the motor with potentiometers and it sends out the appropirate signals to move the motors?

    With this information in mind, I was thinking more about the type of build where only the seat moves, and the wheel/yoke/stick/pedals stay fixed to the ground. It seems like it would be a simpler build, and this is important to me because I really don't want to bite off more than I can chew and end up with a useless pile of junk. In your opinion, does it feel weird or break the immersion to be moving while your pedals and wheel stay stationary? Do these designs typically have a smaller range of motion? Do you consciously find yourself having to compensate through your arms and legs, or does it come fairly naturally? What about for flight as compared to driving?

    Cheers
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    A seat shaker design actually provides some additional motion cues at the wrist and ankles, so that does not break immersion and is particularly effective for race sims in things like gear changes. A seat shaker is a great first project and you can always up date or reuse the parts if you want to update further down the track.

    SimTools handles the motion software side, including filters, but you do need control boards such as Arduino + Sabertooth (or other options see FAQs) or JRKs. JRKs have there own software by Pololu, there is a range of code for Arduinos in the FAQs: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/arduino-code-for-use-with-various-hardware-and-simtools.31/