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WIP - RacingMat's closed circuit Gseat

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by RacingMat, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi guys!

    In 2014, I thought about building a pneumatic Gseat with a closed-circuit in order to prevent the use of a compressor, valves, exhausts (leading to noise, oil, large footprint, cost).

    1/ I have built a 2DOF full mobile : it was fun but enventually unsatisfactory
    - long effects were not sustained
    - movements induce 3 phases effects with wrong feelings:
    during a braking, the 2 DOF starts to push you in the back (wrong) and then to restrain you with the harness (OK), and nothing special with a slightly tilted plateform (wrong).
    - I didn't like being shaked (am I getting old? :D)

    2/ I have owned a Gecko gSeat but having the backrest of an arm chair strapped on my back like a backpack, was not comfortable and the seat itself was not self-centered, so the user has to keep in mind to stay within the limits. If not, it bumps the mechanical stops. These factors are not good for immersion...

    3/ Black friday made the GS-5 at 2500$ vs 3000$ but where would have been the DIY fun? And I don't like the position driven gSeat. I only believe in torque (or pressure) driven gSeat.
    With a position driven gSeat, if you move away, the wrong force will be applied.

    Since that I have spared some money and I'm starting to build my pneumatic closed-circuit Gseat! :)

    The advantages are :
    - no precision mechanics (bearing blocks, rollers, cardan shaft...)
    - 1 DOF by pressure pad: no mixing needed. Gain of time in setups. Simplier code: 1 arduino per DOF.

    Good Wife Acceptance Factors:
    - preserve the racing seat esthetics: pressure pad under the seat cover.
    - small footprint
    - no moving parts around the seat dangerous for bystanders (2DOF ou 6 DOF actuators): pressure devices enclosed in a remote box (under the seat?).

    The drawbacks are :
    - low reactivity. This will be counteracted by tactile transducers (and by tubes of large diameter if necessary or faster motors).
    • Like Like x 5
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    • Like Like x 2
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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  4. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    14 décembre 2015
    Frex

    FREX:
    "We are working on pricing.Standalone USB device. It will be around US$810, 770 euro plus shipping from Japan.
    One set includes 2x2 bags for side sway or surge. 2 sets need for 2DOF."
    "1 set for side effect when turn corner is very good.
    1 more set on back and under knee for accel/braking.
    So 2 sets will be full AirG-Force setup: 1620$"

    [​IMG]

    ACME Worldwide Enterprises, Inc

    ACME's Simulator G-Suit Systems – Training for G’s without the Actual G’s
    Fighter jets operate in a dynamic world of banks, climbs, dives, rolls, vibrations, shudders. The jet continuously changes accelerations and G-forces. G-loads are an inseparable part of the fighter environment.

    Pilots use the cues from the motion, pressure, and vibrations to fly the jet. The flight sensations are part of the pilot’s awareness of the jet’s status and situation. And, G-suit pressure is a companion to the G-loads in flight. Outside of the centrifuge, there is no way to apply flight G-loads to the crew in the simulator. But, G-suit pressure is an excellent way to train sustained G-cues. In flight, G load is either constant, increasing, or decreasing. The pressure in the G-suit starts at specific loads then varies according to G-Load above the pressure onset.



    GForces Vest

    "3RDSpace Ballistic Impact Vest" since 2009
    with a compressor
    for FPS games to feel the impacts

    https://tngames.com/pages/how-it-works at 139$
    trigger-vest.png
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  5. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Actuators:

    ServoGSeat.png
    The working angle of the servo is 180 degree or 270 degree (PWM: 500us-2500us)
    Some remote controls can only output 1000-2000, it is recommended to buy 270 degree.


    I choose these servos beacuse I thought the brackets are really convenient in this configuration to squeeze a wedge :thumbs
    Here is what I received.
    60kg servo pneumatic gSeat.gif

    Speed: 0.17sec/60 degree at(6v)
    0.15sec/60 degree at(7.4v)
    0.13sec/60 degree at(8.4v) -----------> 1,3 tours/sec
    Torque: 58kg.cm.at(6v)
    65kg.cm.at(7.4v)
    70kg.cm.at(8.4v)
    Voltage: 6v-8.4v
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    Speed: 0.13sec/60 degree at(5v)
    0.12sec/60 degree at(6v)
    0.11sec/60 degree at(7.4v) -----------> 1,5 tours/sec
    Torque: 29kg.cm.at(5v) -1.9A
    32kg.cm.at(6v) -2.1A
    35kg.cm.at(7.4v) -2.3A
    Voltage: 5v-7.4v
    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    Speed: 0.19sec/60 degree at(5v)
    0.17sec/60 degree at(6.8v)
    Torque: 18.5kg.cm.at(5v)
    21kg.cm.at(6.8v)
    Voltage: 4.8v-6.8v
    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    Speed: 0.16sec/60 degree at(5v)
    0.14sec/60 degree at(6.8v)
    Torque: 15kg.cm.at(5v)
    17kg.cm.at(6.8v)
    Voltage: 4.8v-6.8v

    Max current
    60 kgcm : 6,2A stall current at 8,4V
    35 kgcm : 1,5A stall current at 7,2V

    Beware that these servos need particular voltage supply...
    I had to buy 2 power supplies
    a 8DCV adjustable +/-3% -> between 7.77V and 8.24 V
    and a 7DCV -> between 6,80V and 7,21V

    R&D needs some sacrifices...
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  6. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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  7. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  8. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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  9. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Some videos:

    @xxpelle videos of his great project :popcorn




    xxpelle gseat 3.jpeg xxpelle gseat 2.jpeg xxpelle gseat 1.jpeg

    with SFX100 actuators


    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  10. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Based on the number of bags their 2dof system has I should be charging over $3000 for a Jiffy G-seat. And I include a way of mounting everything on your seat too :rolleyes:. Also I didn't mention it but an option is you can move the brake bladders on a Jiffy G-seat to the seat bottom instead and have the same braking functionality as the GS-5.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  11. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I'm not sure Frex sold many of them...

    In my opinion, it's a really bad design:
    - With a single double-action actuator for 2 cushions, the cushions are at half pressure at minimum and you cannot actuate them simultaneously for a bump...
    - Plus they didn't take the opportunity to use both tubes for quicker response. They monopolise 1 tube only for occasionnal refill... :confused:
    - And final, it's not pressure driven...
  12. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    here is my fiber bucket seat being stripped!

    seat clamps that are screwed, it's fine
    Copy (2) of baquet dehoussage (5).jpg

    but the clamps that are clipsed... :confused: I broke it...

    Copy (2) of baquet dehoussage (2).jpg

    Copy (2) of baquet dehoussage (1).jpg

    I'll now try to determine how to attach tactile transducers (back, left and right), throne thumper below and brackets for a harness tensionner maybe. :)
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  13. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I received the 7V PSU (for the 25kg servo not received yet) and I'm waiting for a 8V for the 60 kg servo
    and pressure sensor
    and ampmeter
    I got work to do :)
    pressure sensor.jpg ampmeter.jpg 7V PSU.jpg
  14. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    that's really a small sensor (see arduino pins in comparison)! hard to solder it nicely...

    soudure capteur.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  15. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    When things get small you can use a flux pen, solder paste + hot air for a way better finish.
  16. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi!

    first trials with this "pacman" configuration : servo at the center
    the torque is too weak
    it's sad because it was compact and mechanically fine
    cushion 24.gif

    so I went the @xxpelle way for pressing the cushion: servo at the end :thumbs

    In these trials, I'm using the pressure sensor (under the white tape) to monitor the system.
    If the pilot is moving away, the servo will press more in order to keep the right pressure (send from Simtools)
    if the pilot gets closer, the servo will release its pressure.

    cushion 30.gif
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  17. T R Para

    T R Para i make stuff up Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I am interested in making an air operated G-Seat also.
    I have purchased this Air bladdered car seat in hopes of adapting it/hacking it.. lol
    I am going to try using air valves and a light weight compressor.
    Here are some link.s to the stuff I have ordered.

    Valves
    Air Bladder Seat
    amazon.com/ENGREPO-Massager-Electric-Adjustable-Especially/dp/B07NSHL76N

    Here is the only video I could find about the air seat. Badly done but better than nothing!

    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  18. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    that's interesting!

    I don't know why URL links are disabled... but with some searchings, I found them.
    I didn't go this way because of the noise of compressor and exhausts:
    you forgot exhausts like this upload_2020-1-2_11-33-43.jpeg


    upload_2020-1-2_11-26-20.png


    upload_2020-1-2_11-26-54.png


    upload_2020-1-2_11-28-23.png

    upload_2020-1-2_11-28-38.png
  19. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    MEDIA=amazonitem
    @noorbeast: do you know about this (new?) tag? and how to use it?
    it made visually disappear the links I posted but there are in the code view...

    Code:
    [MEDIA=amazonitem]amazon.com/dp/B01LYHYHEA[/MEDIA]
    [ATTACH=full]68142[/ATTACH]
    
    [MEDIA=amazonitem]amazon.com/dp/B07WR2ZQHY[/MEDIA]
    [ATTACH=full]68143[/ATTACH]
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    That would be a question for @RaceRay.
  21. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    • Informative Informative x 2