1. Hundreds of coffees, endless nights of debugging and coding, and countless feedback by our beta testers led to this new major release. SimTools 2.4 is probably the version with the most upgrades and improvements in a single release ever. Look at everything Dustin has included:
    SimTools 2.4 all features.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

so whats the verdict? Oculus or Vive?

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by Boomslangnz, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    757
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,166Coins
    Ratings:
    +766 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    It is basically a six of one, half dozen of the other in many ways and each has specifics to offer depending on preferences.

    Since the benefits of the Rift are being highlighted, here are a few for Vive. The displays are three times brighter (measured and verified) and are mura corrected so there isn't a linen effect. While there is more SDE in the Vive, the Rift and Vive have the same number of pixels and the reason there is more SDE is because the Vive pixels are spread over a larger field of view. It's more like being there and less like looking through binoculars. The Rift has better ergonomics but there is a new strap with integrated headphones like the Rift available for $100. A lot of the ergonomics are also due to people not knowing how to properly adjust the Vive straps. New Vives are also significantly lighter. Vive tracking is hands down better than the Rift. While some seem to prefer Touch, the Vive wands are no slouch and Lighthouse tracking means I can mount a Vive tracker to my motion seat without having to sort how to mount a Touch controller. The Vive tracker has a simple 1/4-20 thread to mount it.

    So both have things to offer. My preference is Vive and it's just a wonderful experience for VR flying and driving, and room scale is just nuts.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    619
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,171Coins
    Ratings:
    +618 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Someone (that I can't recall) says that you should not mount light house from Vive to a motion rig, since there is moving part that may be damage with motion. Have you attach yours to a motion seat?
  3. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    757
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,166Coins
    Ratings:
    +766 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    @Pierre Lalancette - That is very correct that you shouldn't mount Lighthouse units to a motion rig. They have spinning parts in them and it probably wouldn't be good for them. Not sure if anyone has tested that, though.

    With Vive you just leave the Lighthouse units where they are but this meant you were restricted to small movements on your rig because the head movements from rig motion would be added to your head movements relative to the rig - not good for nausea and as others have noted with the Rift with an off-rig camera mount, you could find yourself moving so far in the virtual world that your view could even be from outside the car.

    This all has changed now with rig motion cancellation. All you do is attach a tracked object to the rig near your head position and designate it as the reference. HTC and Valve have created the Vive Tracker for different purposes (presumably) but it's just the tracking part of the Vive wands. It has a 1/4-20 mount and is perfect for mounting to a seat and subtracting rig motion. For whatever it's worth, I have a feature request in with Valve to formalize motion platform subtraction but haven't heard a peep on if they are looking to implement it in the actual driver. That would be preferable to add-on software which is the situation now.

    There is a pinned thread on the add-on software but people are reporting wonderful results at nulling sim motion on both Rift and Vive. The Rift guys have moved their cameras back off-rig and are letting the add-on do proper nulling. The problem with just locating cameras or Lighthouses on the rig is that while they correct for the optical fixes, they cannot correct for the inertial tracking that both Rift and Vive do and at a higher rate than optical. Subtracting away the motions of a reference tracked object to compensate for rig motion is far and away the right way to do it.

    And yep - mounting my Tracker on the seat. Printing the mount now.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    619
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,171Coins
    Ratings:
    +618 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Zed, can you give me more information about that thread on motion cancellation. I want to second it and put pressure on Vive to get it into their driver.
    As I am building my simulator right now( https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/6-dof-from-scratch.9409/ ), this feature is a must!
    And if you want to share your mounting device, I'd like to have. I have no printer right now, but you never know.
  5. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    757
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,166Coins
    Ratings:
    +766 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Hey Pierre, the thread on motion cancellation is here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/vr-motion-cancellation-time-to-test.10241/

    The feature request is on Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/4/1326718197209837066/ I totally agree that it is a must since if it's done in the driver, we're just done and it stays supported. Thanks in advance if you add your voice on this feature.

    Here is the mount - it's still printing but shouldn't be long now:

    TrackerMount.jpg

    The .stl file is attached if anyone wants to print their own. Another version for pan head screws here: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...-vive-and-vive-tracker-a-tracker-mount.10346/

    Info on the Vive Tracker is available here: https://www.vive.com/us/vive-tracker/ It's basically just another tracked item. It's not available yet in the HTC store for regular users, but you can buy them in the developer section for $99. The price may be lower for consumers but no word yet if that will be the case. https://www.vive.com/us/vive-tracker-for-developer/

    Attached Files:

    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  6. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,203
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    26,134Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,486 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Just jumped off No Limits 2 back into Oculus home and was surprised by a new background with the StarTrek Starship cruising past :) - obviously an AD for the Bridge Crew program, I had the buttkicker on and it was all quite cool:D.
  7. jangomoose

    jangomoose Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    105
    Location:
    Hobart, Australia
    Balance:
    784Coins
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Star Trek Bridge Crew is an absolute blast. Well worth the money if anyone is considering it.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,995
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,181Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,001 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    after testing hours of hours on VR IMHO I can report you that my 3DVISION triples are still unbeaten relating to sim racing (only). My screens are so crisp and the FOV is around 180° (static, but I do not need more). Furthermore I can see all my gadgets (OSW, button box etc) while they became part of the 3DVISION screen content (and the car) which is very immersive. VR is immersive but the technology of Gen 1 is way behind what it should be, so after "reactivating" my triples I felt like someone who have missed something very important over the last few years in his live and he did not know, what it is - until he rediscovered it lol.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    757
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,166Coins
    Ratings:
    +766 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    That's totally fair, @Pit. Many love their triples and especially 3D triples! I haven't had the pleasure of trying 3D triples to say for myself which is better for me (all this stuff is very subjective), but I dig getting out of the cars especially in Assetto Corsa to check them out and do as much of a walkaround as my office permits, turning around and looking behind me, the total exclusion of my real-world environment, and on my rig, not having the weight of three big monitors is a factor in a more compact full-cockpit ride that doesn't have to be so beefy.

    It's really too bad we still have to pick one or the other because the resolution is definitely lower in VR for now at least, and we have to wear headsets but wind simulators make that much more comfortable. For those that don't mind the even more expense added in on top of VR, there are people doing mixed reality and overlaying their real world cockpits into the VR world which is trick as all hell and yet more expense.

    What's really cool is that we have all these options available and we can do what suits each one best. Would like to try 3D triples out sometime, though. I've seen 3D monitors and they are very cool.
  10. paulopsx2

    paulopsx2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    brasil
    Balance:
    769Coins
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino, Motion platform
    well.. after 1 year, im using both.. and vive are better.
  11. Andrew M

    Andrew M P_H_O_3_N_I_X

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    105
    Occupation:
    IT Chief Programmer / CTO
    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    Balance:
    534Coins
    Ratings:
    +95 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    As a Rift DK2/CV1 user for 2-3 years [ also have a PSVR and played a little with Vive - which honesty has worst SDE - IMHO ] I am a little tired of all this low resolution screens which still suffers for a SDE issue.
    + also don`t want to wait another 1-2 year untill Vive / Oculus / other huge corpos earn enough and will make a step forward... so want to try something different / maybe not as mainstream, but - now - what ?...
    a cheap Pimax 4K HMD [ already bought it so just must wait untill arrives - new costs 300-400$, but I found a 2 monthly used for 250$ ] AND: it works with SteamVR and OculusVR as native - so all available games should be played out of the box !
    its biggest known issue for me seems to be lack of positional tracking [ yeaa, it also doesn`t have a touch controllers, and other stuff - definitelly has other issues, etc..], but also PTracking can be added with cheap PSMove and PS3Camera - so honesty I really can`t wait to see a working 4K solution as I am a big fun of VR ! :)
  12. paulopsx2

    paulopsx2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    brasil
    Balance:
    769Coins
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino, Motion platform
    Unfortunelly, pimax os a great deception. 2k per eye, lowest ms, and some pther issues... see some reviews on youtube.
  13. Andrew M

    Andrew M P_H_O_3_N_I_X

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    105
    Occupation:
    IT Chief Programmer / CTO
    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    Balance:
    534Coins
    Ratings:
    +95 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    yes, seen many reviews, but have you seen this ? : ?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,203
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    26,134Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,486 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I have also watch/read allot of reviews which has just confused me more than anything else. I'm aware of its pros and cons, but for what I want it for these cons 'may' not have much of an impact - a bit of a lottery really - @Andrew M - look forward to your review.
  15. iceman

    iceman New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    United States
    Balance:
    203Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    I have both the Rift and the Vive.

    The Vive is better in just about every way aside from the weight and having to buy add-on integrated headphones.

    I find Oculus's software to be extremely buggy. I constantly have to reboot Windows. This is not something I have to do with the Vive.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,203
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    26,134Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,486 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Maybe its specific to each PC, as I have rarely (don't remember the last time :think) had to reboot 'windows 10' for an Oculus or any other issue.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. iceman

    iceman New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    United States
    Balance:
    203Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Very well could be a conflict with the sound driver. The audio normally starts going crazy and then it will hang. Have had the issue with all versions of the Oculus firmware.
  18. Coop

    Coop New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    England
    Balance:
    147Coins
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0
    Firstly, thanks to everyone who has contributed in this thread. I am about to take the plunge into the world of VR and could not have made a properly informed decision on which model to go for without the information posted here.

    The HTC Vive is the one I have decided to buy, but it was a difficult choice, particularly as I will mostly be using it for racing sims where it appears the difference between the two it not so obvious. A special offer on the Vive has twisted my arm enough to make my mind up. I will be getting the 'delux audio strap' when it is back in stock & the discount on the HMD bundle will effectively cover the cost of this.

    What I haven't decided yet though, is whether it is worth the extra money to purchase the 'Tracker' - Is there a significant difference over just mounting one of the two supplied controllers to my seat, for the purposes of motion cancellation?

    Also, I only have one HDMI port on my graphics card which I was hoping to connect my monitor with, so should I buy the Mini DP to Display Port cable & just connect the Vive that way? Are there any obvious downsides to not connecting the Vive via HDMI? (I would rather not use HDMI to Display Port adaptors if poss).

    Any advice anyone can offer would be great. Thanks
    • Like Like x 1
  19. jangomoose

    jangomoose Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    105
    Location:
    Hobart, Australia
    Balance:
    784Coins
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Display Port to the Vive link box works just as well as the HDMI. Out of interest what deal did you get on the Vive? Thinking of buying another one so I can add another household member to my Star Trek Bridge Crew.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,261
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    100,593Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,380 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The function of the tracker and the controller will be the same, the only benefit is that the tracker can be firmly and permanently bolted to the sim and leaves the controllers free for other VR experiences. If you don't mind mounting and unmounting the controller from the sim Steen you don't need a tracker. If you change your mind later you can still add a tracker then.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1