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OPEN VR CODER NEEDED !! PLEASE HELP !!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by SilentChill, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. cubexxx

    cubexxx New Member

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    Sure, but what has that do do with a rotational speed? 10 Hz on a transducer doesn't mean 3600 deg/s. The transducer doesn't cause full rotations. Will be more likely a translational movement with amplitudes of a few mm.
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Its not about rotations, it is about what Lighthouse can track, so if you have a Vive tracker mounted to a rig which is subject to 50htz vibrations then likely that is going to cause tracking issues, irrespective of anything else. 50htz is the equivalent of 18000 degree/sec.
  3. cubexxx

    cubexxx New Member

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    The degree/s is about rotation, but the Hz value of the transducer is not about rotation, but its the frequency of vibration. If you have something rotating with 18000deg/s it you could say it has a frequency of 50 Hz. If a transducer vibrates with 50 Hz it's a totally different thing, no rotation involved. You can't simply equate those two things like you did. In the link you provided they are talking about "turning the wrist", so clearly angular movement (rotation).
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    The conversion is mathematical and for the purpose of illustrating that there is a hard limit for tracking resolution coded into SteamVR and where that may be in terms of what our rigs are subjected to. The key question is can we verify if the circumstances of our rigs be above that? The efforts of members to dampen/stabalise the vibration trackers are subjected to on our rigs certainly suggests the answer could be yes.

    Hence I am suggesting it may possible and even testable to find out if SteamVR trackers subjected to the likes of transducers and very fast and repeated motion reversals can exceed that floor tracking resolution value, all other factors aside. As far as I am aware it has not been independently tested, but is key to deciding if SteamVR alone can possibly do motion cancellation of rigs in all circumstances of use that would be desirable.

    In my view ORVRIE already does the basics necessary for SteamVR trackers, but even there has been found to be affected on powerful rigs, particularly with transducers. I believe the simplest step from there is as per my earlier suggestion, use a SteamVR tracker, even a DIY version (5 sensors would be best) and modify ORVRIE motion cancellation to accurately resolve the tracking of the puck mounted near the head for inside out HMDs. If the aim is motion cancellation generic to all HMDs then utilising ORVRIE may not the best way to go.

    If we want to resolve the transducer/high powered issue then we need to first determine if that is even possible for SteamVR tracking.
  5. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I think it's entirely possible (even likely) that you are correct. I just think that it's worth testing if possible, rather than assuming it won't work.

    The tracked controller is basically the vehicle, the HMD is the head. I think quite a bit of error may be hidden by the fact that our brain perceives that we are just moving independently of the 'vehicle' which is naturally true. This is also what makes the error caused by the offset of the tracked controller from the driver/pilot head position tolerable.
  6. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    I don't need motion cancellation anymore, but are the V2 Base stations/index controllers any better in regard to tracking and being effected by vibrations etc?
  7. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    This is important stuff, very nicely said.;)
    I really appreciate that Noorbeast is "playing the devil's advocate", we need that! But some of the above threads have really been theoretical. E.g. when some platforms go beyond the limits of what a Vive Tracker in a Vive ecosystem can measure or be followed, then we ALSO have a problem with the headset, at least, when it's a Vive or Vive Pro (using the exact same hardware as a tracker). That's what I mean by "theoretical": by the time we have a problem with the tracker, we'd already have one with the HMD, too.
    Of course, I assume that the tracker is not fixed to the platform, but damped in a similar way to what our head is damped.
    As you, Trip, I think there's quite A LOT of error our body and brain can take without getting nausea or loosing immersion. Just have a look at one of those "chicken head" videos. We can easily read in a car, a train or on a motion platform. When I limit my 6DoF system to 25% I can play any racing game or flight sim without a problem. But with 80-100% when my head sinks into the headrest or touches the stick, it's getting weird.
    In fact, I therefore think we should rather smoothen or deadzone some of the compensation input, than going for insanely high refresh rates and ─ vice versa ─ compensating tiny little bits of movements in display.
  8. KydDynoMyte

    KydDynoMyte Fool's Gold Contributor

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    I like to think about having the tracked object virtually anchored to the playspace. With advanced settings you can move the playspace all the degrees of freedom easily except for pitch and roll. There is even a branch that uses this to make consistent locomotion between games, it just can't manipulate pitch and roll. I assume they don't want the floor unlevel, which is what we want to be possible. I think this way you could just set the offset from the center of the playspace floor and the tracked object attached to your motion platform. Doesn't need to be close to your head or changed for another person of a different height.

    The Yaw VR motion sim has some software motion cancellation, but they are tracking the rotations of the chair with an imu, which I imagine most sims don't.
  9. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    For anyone's info: yesterday when I used the $10 Steam app called "natural locomotion" I stumbled across a function reading like "playspace synchronization". Since I am currently deprived of my WMR headset (Reverb) I postponed delving into it. "Space Calibrator" never worked for me...
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  10. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    Oh one more thing. Have you read about the new gen of Steam VR trackers resp. tracking dev kits? What do you think about that?
    With such tracking devices getting smaller, cheaper and easier to use, the Vive ecosystem with a primary investment into a couple of lighthouses might become a "sine qua non" for people who want or need to go a little beyond of what their standard package offers. A universal compensation method using a tracker attached to the HMD and the other behind your headrest now just got cheaper.
  11. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    This probably has been mentioned back there somewhere but I did not find it.

    One way to get rid of the vibration shake is to find a way to turn off X, Y, and Z head tracking. This means that motion canceling software is not needed at all.

    I accidentally did this today and was able to enjoy an afternoon of F-86 flying without any extra motion in the simpit. I do not actually like it as I do use the other three D0F (head tracking) in flight but I was thinking that it would not matter in a racing game. I have not yet tried it with my 3DoF driving simpit though.

    Of course, I have not been able to replicate this. I am using a Reverb (WMR) and I had started SteamVR before starting the WMR portal. So there must be a way to make it happen.
  12. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

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    Just put something over the cameras on the headset and you will lose the surge heave and sway , I've had to do that for a while. Only problem you can get some drifting going on either left or right and have to keep recentering
  13. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    WRT the problem with the bass shakers that disturb motion cancellation with Vive trackers and most controllers, I have found MY solution: It's simple: I use Andre's Jetseat instead of "shakers". I (still) have both, a BK Mini LFE and an early version of what is now called "SimShaker JetPad FSE".
    In early times I had missed in the pad the engine vibes and therefore needed the KB. But Andre's software has very much developed and, at least in his Simshaker Wings software, gives you now even more than just one option to feel the engines rumble. For me, flying WWII piston aircraft, it has made the use of the KB completely obsolete.
    I don't know why Bass Shakers corrupt the trackers and why the Jetseat pad does not. I assume it is the range of the frequency. And the 8 motors of the Pad deliver the rumble directly to your body and not thru the the seat's skeleton.
    Of course, the Pad offers more than "disturbance free rumble". Because it is "event driven" thru an API and not "sound driven" thru the soundcard you can feel events like landing gear, flaps, opening the canopy, g-forces, stall shaking, ground bumps and so on even if they don't come with loud noise!

    For those who want to stick to their KB gear, maybe Andre's software offers a solution by way of the so called Sound module addon. As I understand it it will drive a bass shaker thru a dedicated soundcard, but does not use the game's soundtrack, but takes sounds from its own library. You can edit and replace the sound files in this library. So you could experiment and filter/limit/cut those sounds with the effect that they don't corrupt your tracker or controller anymore ─ maybe. Just loud thinking.
    If anyone has experience with these options in the Simshaker software, please correct me!

    Disclaimer: I paid the full retail price for my two Jetseats, which I have in use for years now. I'm certainly a fan of the Jetseat and Andre's support and must have belonged to Andre's first batch of Western/EU customers, but I am not affiliated to his shop in any way.
  14. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    I did not get any drifting. I found that I can replicate it by not calibrating in WMR.
  15. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    I use Andre's software, it works very well. The Jet Seat looks good but I will stick with transducers.
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    For anyone interested in a cheap and very clean way to use rumble motors for haptics take a look at the modified race style massage chair (8 built in rumble motors + 2 on the pedals, driven by telemetry) I built for my father: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/teddles-vr-haptic-rig.13821/
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