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OPEN VR CODER NEEDED !! PLEASE HELP !!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by SilentChill, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    The problem with using the HP Reverb with a Vive tracker (for compensation) is that you need to align the WMR and Vive/Steam space. There is OpenVR-SpaceCalibrator v0.8 for that, but it never worked for me. Therefore in the past months for me it was either the Vive Pro WITH compensation or the Reverb WITHOUT compensation ─ a really a devilish choice:(. I'm a big fan of the Reverb.
    I assume the Valve Index comes with an easier space calibration. Has anyone any experience with it? But anyway, the Index lacks resolution...
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    The Index uses either Gen1 or 2 Lighthouse tracking, it gives a little bit away to the Reverb in terms of resolution, but gains in FOV and sweet spot, the reality is that all HMDs have some sort of compromises.
  3. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    You're right about the compromises. And some features can be measured, but some are very individual. The Reverb's sweet spot seems to be one of them. I can hardly imagine a better sweet spot, to my eyes it's in par or better than the Rift S's, let alone the Vive. I had them all from the DK1 onwards, but the Reverb is the first one that makes me forget about screendoor effect and lack of sharpness. It makes it so hard to go back to anything below that level...:(
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I love my Index. I haven't tried a Reverb but I'd find it difficult to go back to a smaller FOV and there's no mechanical IPD adjustment. My IPD is 67.5. If I can't get motion tracking to work with the VRFree gloves also working I'll probably be forced to try the Reverb though. It would really suck to have to spend that much on a HMD I don't really want so I really hope there isn't a compatibility problem. =(
  5. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    Hi Trip Rodriguez, nice to hear from you! I am among the the lucky "averages" with IPD 64, thus that never handicapped me, with or without physical adjustment.
    Funny you mention the VRFree gloves. It's hardly an hour ago that I had the thought of giving them away. I feel like I stumbled ─ once more :think─ into the early adopter trap. Their setup is way too complicated and too instable to be used in a hardcore sim environment like I have. And I haven't even tried them with the motion platform!
    2 or 3 years ago I tried the Leap Motion and I was astonished at its precision. Therefore I think the future of hand and finger tracking (as long as there is no haptic feedback needed!) lies in pure optical tracking. I really think Leapmotion (now Ultraleap) is on a good track. Pimax had announced a leap motion addon. With Oculus rolling out its hand tracking solution right these days we now have a really big player!
    Although even the Oculus hand tracking won't probably work "out of the box" in combination with a motion platform, I stay optimistic that we'll see some (hopefully integrated) solution.
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  6. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    J-1775 Thanks for the reply! I'm sure we will get decent hand tracking before too many years go by and Quest hand tracking is a big step in the right direction.

    Having a near perfect system for interacting with knobs and switches without a controller is a seriously difficult thing though and may be many years until we get something that's not frustrating to use.

    For me, I just need to SEE my hands. That's it! No interaction, nothing. Just see them. That doesn't seem like too much to ask!
  7. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    Mmhh, on second thought I'm not that sure whether that's much easier (or easier at all) than using virtual gloves in a virtual environment. I actually think you need even more precision.
    Let me explain: a) I use finger tracking to move a VIRTUAL switch. It may be that my virtual hand/fingers are not in the correct physical space, the virtual hand and my physical hand do not match 100%. I may have a slightly disturbing feel, but I will automatically correct the position of my hand and find my target (the VIRTUAL switch) easily. Because in the end it's the old WYSISWYG, what I SEE ist what I GET.
    Or imagine this: You have some kind of gloves on (e.g. the VRFree). One is out of sync by a couple of inches. That means in VR you can either touch fingertips of your virtual index fingers or of your physical index fingers. What is easier? The first! Do you agree?
    Now b) (your setup): currently you fumble blindly to find your physical switch. With virtual gloves that are just a tiny little bit out of space sync you'll be even more than blind. You'll have to counteract against what you see.
    I'm afraid it may be difficult to understand what I'm saying. Maybe it helps when you can try out yourself... (YES, YOU CAN, soon...)
  8. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    =D

    Thanks! I have pretty high confidence it will work well for me based on my own tests.

    What I was able to achieve was attaching a Vive Tracker to a glove on the back of my hand and use OVRIE to draw a VR hand controller attached to it. Even with many hours spent researching and even using a trial version of Solidworks attempting it myself I was unable to get a glove or hand instead of a VR controller.

    So, I was wearing a glove, and in VR it appeared that I had a Knuckles controller in my hand. Even using this very clumsy version of what I'm trying to do it worked decently. I was able to see where my hand was well enough to get within about 25-30mm of the real switch as long as I kept my hand in the specific orientation I had set it up for.

    In this terrible quality video I demonstrate that it works. Unfortunately you can't see what I see, you'll just have to take my word for it that my eyes are inside the VR headset! =D It was sure a whole lot better than feeling around blind, but also far from ideal and immersion breaking seeing my hands look like a VR controller that I'm not even using! @J-1775 at 18 seconds you can see I missed the first grab due to what you are describing, but it still got me close enough to find it without really feeling around. For me this is the same when adjusting the volume on a car stereo. I glance over as I reach for just a moment to get my hand in the right place, then kinda feel for it now that I'm close. Keep in mind, I'm an Aspie so my muscle memory and hand-eye coordination is pretty terrible anyway!

    In case anyone is wondering, I recorded this with a webcam velcroed to my VR HMD LOL.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  9. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

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    Just something i noted: In the Open VR under "Motion compensation seetings" i must choose nothing. Every other filter causes lags, motions sickness, false movements and even track loss.
    Especially while doing a full loop or violent turns. I use a index controller for cancelling.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Correct. These were the original developers experimental attempt at solving the bass shaker vibration problem. It didn't work, and right about then is when he stopped supporting the project so they never got removed.
  11. Onslope

    Onslope New Member

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    Did anyone get WMR + Vive tracker to work as an motion compensator?
    If the Vive Lighthouses could be aligned to the WMR Space then the tracker would (should) align and track correct even when selected as the motion compensator?
  12. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I haven't played with that, but it is supposed to work and there is a software tool for getting things aligned I believe. Re-read the last few pages of this thread and I believe you will find a link.
  13. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    If oyu haven't looked for (or found) that software, it's "OpenVR-SpaceCalibrator" and is obviously also by matzman666 who created the OpenVR-InputEmulator.
    I tried to match the Vive tracker on the back of my seat to a Reverb controller, but never succeeded. I am VERY interested if you try motion compensation with your WMR!!
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  14. Onslope

    Onslope New Member

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    Did you get the Reverb motion compensation working?

    I've been juggling with setting for a while now but did not solve it quite yet though.

    I skipped the space matchup in openvr space calibrator and just selected the tracker as the compensator unit in openvr input emulator. Then adjusted the Reverb HMD using "Driver Offset" to match the Tracker. This gave more accurate motion compensation but the applications I started, from inside of WMR, greyed out in the headset. Is this something you could try and give feedback on?
  15. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    Thanks for sharing your experience! Unfortunately you're two days late as I had to send in my broken Reverb (the ominous on-off-and-then-only-one-eye bug) and was told the repair/replacement will take 2-3 weeks. Will be a looooong time, fighting blurs instead of aircraft.
    At least with the Vive Pro motion compensation mostly works like a charm. Maybe by the time I get the Reverb back we have a solution?
    BTW, just one or two days ago I spotted an update of the Steam-WMR-app. Was that running? I never was certain what situations or apps actually need it, but in case of any trouble I usually start it.
    Sometimes when an app is going blank but is still runing it helps when I go into the WMR "portal" and make a reset/calibration of my (seated) position. After all, it's the early adopter's fate to constantly try illogical or even lunatic things...;)
  16. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Ain't that the truth!!!

    I actually bought a Reverb in a moment of weakness last week. It showed up and was DOA. That plus the sheer volume of reported failures and breakages with the Reverb scared me off so I'm not having them send another. I can't afford a $600 paperweight.
  17. Onslope

    Onslope New Member

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    Sorry to hear about your DOA. Quality ain't priority these days.
    Got a good specimen of the Reverb so I was at least lucky :)

    Been trying to solve the motion compensation and I was quite close.

    I disregarded synching the space with the vive space in OpenVr Space Calibrator and instead focused on trying to alignt the XYZ center of the HMD and the Vive tracker with the both spaces .
    I actually made 1 profile in OVRIE for the HMD to align it with the satellite of the Vive then matched the WMR controllers with another profile to the HMD.
    Cancellation was better but it is still overreacting the Vive tracker and drifting the controllers. Due to not centered XYZ axle point in space.

    I believe
    1. One solution could be to align tracker space XYZ axle point to the HMD.
    Slave that axle point to the HMD axle point using software coding.
    This should make the tracker pivot around the axle of the HMD even though the tracker is 50 ft away.

    2. Maybe also removing travel in XYZ (but slaved to HMD XYZ point) of the tracker and only use yaw, roll, pitch would be an easier solution.
    And maybe this could be achieved by fixing the tracker satellites to the rig.
    Shaking would be less if they are close to the tracker and software damping could also do the trick.

    3. HMD Head movements would disturb the motion cancellation so the HMD yaw, roll, pitch difference from the satellites then need to be cancelling the XYZ yaw, roll, pitch on the tracker.

    This would align the axles of the both spaces around the users head. Cancel motion compensation for head movement in the sim but cancel the simulator rig movement in WMR space.

    Inputs on the above? Is it possible using all the software we already have?:sos
  18. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Edit: I made a huge false assumption, or rather failed to verify one piece of info I had in my head from years back that turned out to be wrong so now this link is basically just discussion of how VR motion tracking works, why it doesn't work (at least not perfectly) to put the Rift CV1 camera on the sim, and why motion compensation is needed.

    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...n-compensation-and-enclosed-simulators.14150/
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  19. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Alright folks, I've been doing a lot of planning, plotting, and possibly scheming relative to my simulator plans and I think it's high time to give this topic a good stiff poke with a stick!

    It's coming up on near a year since this thread started and as far as I know there's been no sign of us managing to get a coder to help us out. That means a different strategy is required IMO.

    From my point of view (totally uneducated and therefore almost certainly incorrect) it seems odd that we've got volunteer programmers to make and maintain SimTools, to make the Simtools game Plugins, to create memory hacks for some games with no proper telemetry output, etc. but we can't find someone who can work on the already existing open source OVRIE code. Is it maybe a matter of just getting their attention? People already active in our community? Or is it a totally different category of computer witchcraft?

    Maybe if we were more specific and conservative in what we ask the right people would it happen? Like "Hey, we have this open source code. Could one of you guys just see if maybe you can add a dead zone to the tracker data stream? and leave it at that. If and when OVRIE really breaks it would be "Hey, we have this open source code for a SteamVR plugin but the new SteamVR update broke it. Could one of you guys have a quick look and see if you can put a band-aid on it?"

    Aside from that the only course of action I can come up with is for us to become an employer looking to hire a freelancer. All we need is some starving college kid looking for extra Ramen money! What I mean is, instead of "we need help" we need to place a want ad looking to hire someone with the requisite programming skills to do a small freelance job for us. Obviously the problem with that theory is that we need to be able to promise payment.

    To that end I think we need to try to take up a collection from all those who are in need of this plugin who are willing and able to contribute. My finances are not what one would assume based on my toys, I live in a mobile home and drive a rusty 25 year old pickup truck, and when I need a root canal I just have them pull the tooth rather than pay $600! Three teeth pulled so far. That notwithstanding, I will contribute what I can I just wish I could contribute more.

    As someone pointed out last year, if we are going to put together funds we need to clearly define exactly what the job is that we are putting our money together for.

    Let us collectively work to create a job description, and then select a "treasurer" we trust to manage the collected funds. Last year I suggested Noorbeast, whose tireless (literally, when does that guy sleep!?) efforts to maintain this forum community have demonstrated that he is capable, committed, and assiduous about his duties. I again list him as my suggestion. You folks may propose whomever you see fit and we will discuss this and come to an agreement.

    As for the job description, others clearly had a much better grasp than I on how to structure this, so I will wait for someone else to get that started.

    Once we have a treasurer and job description I suggest we start taking up a collection. I'd probably follow the standard livestreamer etc. model of donators having the option of whether or not to divulge their identity and/or the size of their contribution, or whether to be anonymous. Again I'm only saying what comes to mind and this is all up for discussion.

    After we see the results of the fund drive we can hopefully actively seek a programmer.

    Please reply with your thoughts, offers of support, or suggestions that I should probably leave this type of thing to people less socially inept than myself.

    Thank you.
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  20. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    I agree very much with you, Trip. For the past year or certainly months we seem like stuck, no real progress. Luckily the worst case, a SteamVR update that makes OVRIE incompatible, hasn't happened (yet). We can either take the risk and go on like this, or actually DO something about it. I DO NOT BLAME ANYONE ─ except maybe myself...

    In an ideal world we'd find someone with some knowledge and some experience with the problem and knowledge of programming ─ and time.
    If we need to find a capable programmer on some online platform it's gonna be more difficult. Then we really need to work and word out very exactly what we need and want.

    In either case a fond/collection with money will help, either as "incentive" or as wage. With noorbeast or anyone here as treasurer I'm ready to send in my share tomorrow ─ as I would when some KS or Indiegogo project would offer a solution.

    Just a thought: How do providers of customer ready platforms (e.g. Atomic Motion, FaseTech, NextLevel3, MotionSystems.eu etc.) deal with the problem? Do all rely on OVRIE (and the Vive ecosystem)? Would give me goose bumps...
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