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Question [Newbie] Starting my rig

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by Mike Melga, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    When something sounds odd check the Glossary, if a definition is not there then please PM me and I will update the Glossary of Acronyms and Names: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/glossary-of-acronyms-and-names.66/

    Back-driving = Refers to a motor/gearbox that can be moved when un-powered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdrive

    For examnple, a 200w motor with 60:1 wormdrive gearbox can't be back driven, but the same motor with 25:1 can easily be back driven.
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  2. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    @Mike Melga
    Thanks for posting the motor specifications. I think the 12v model is going to be to slow with the 50:1 gearbox at only 30 rpm so would probably have to go 24v with those motors to achieve the linear speed you will need. In my opinion they are overkill for your needs at 100nm for a compact seat mover unless you plan to move a lot of weight on your sim. Personally i agree with @noorbeast that the motors best suited to your design would be the 60:1 200w motor from motion dynamics or a close second would be the pgsaw 50:1 180w.
    @Rens
    The term back driven means how easy it is to turn the motor arm when power is removed. Higher geared motors say 60:1 have got good holding torque but have lees speed where as lower geared 25:1 motors have high speed but low holding torque. You have to factor this in to your design.
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  3. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    @Rens

    I still haven't bought any motor. Those are the ones I was thinking of.

    @yellofella

    Thanks. I guess you are right. These motor are way too much for me. I was struggling to find a suitable power supply and some kind of driver that supported such power.
    I know those 2 motors are the best suitable for me but are not an option at the moment: motion dynamics didn't even respond my request for shipping costs email and pgsaw are extremelly expensive considering shipping and taxes.

    I have other options:

    80ZYT145-2438
    24v
    No Load - 1.2A
    No Load - 3800rpm
    Load - 1.1Nm
    Load - 22.5A
    Load - 3000rpm
    (these are the same motors fitted in the DOF Reality M2 seat mover)


    80ZYT180-2436
    24v
    No Load - 1.5A
    No Load - 3600rpm
    Load - 1.7Nm
    Load - 32A
    Load - 2600rpm

    Both can be fitted with a 50:1 gearbox.
    I guess these would be more suitable for my needs and for these I can easily find a compatible power supply and driver.

    What do you think?
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  4. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    @Mike Melga
    The 80ZYT145-2438 looks like a good fit for your needs. What is the cost of the motors compared to the pgsaw and motion dynamics motors?
  5. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    I'm waiting on a exact quote. I'm guessing around $80-$90.
  6. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    Ok....one last question before I place my order:

    They seem to come with a single output shaft but they can modify as needed.
    What kind of shaft should I ask for?

    Edit: I've attached the gearbox shaft schematics

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Shaft selection really is a question as to how you mount the levers and pots.

    This is the levers for solid shaft keyway motors on my compact rig: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/how-to-attach-levers-to-wormdrive-gearboxes.182/

    And I drilled and tapped the shaft on the flush end to take a bolt with the head cut off, which I attached the pot to with a flexible coupling: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ountdown-to-2dof-build.6177/page-2#post-68381
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  8. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    Ok....I'm finalizing my order.
    The motors were updated. The new specs are:

    24v
    No Load - 2000rpm +/- 10%
    Rated Power : 220w
    Rated Speed: 1500 rpm +/- 10%
    Rated Torque: 1.4Nm

    Gear Ratio: 1:25
    Rated Speed: 60 rpm +/- 10%
    Rated Torque: 26 Nm

    $100 each

    I don't know if I'll order 2 or 3 of them. Is traction loss really that good? :p


    Edit: Does the traction loss motor need to be as powerful as these? Can't I use a weaker/cheaper motor?
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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  9. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    Hi buddy
    The motor specs that you posted look ok. As to traction loss id say it would be a must have for a 2dof racing sim. In my experience the motor can be smaller as i still use a wiper motor on my sim. I have a pgsaw motor here ready to replace the wiper motor but it will raise the overall height of my sim to allow for the bigger motor. Not usually a problem to raise the rig 50mm but in my case will involve new wooden feet to be made as well as raising my triple screen mount that is screwed to the wall. I haven't felt that this has been an urgent upgrade as the wiper motor does extremely well but it will happen one day as i have all the parts here to do it. Also my traction loss motor is positioned 500mm from the rear of the sim to allow more overall movement. This increases the torque needed from the motor but not by much. I guess the aim of it is to get the geometry right in the design stage, a bit like getting a good balance point for a 2dof. The frame for traction loss will need to move around a pivot point at the front of the sim. I have angled the rollers at 11 degrees each side to allow for the radial movement so the rollers run easy without any scrubbing. For the rollers i have used roller blade wheels at 78A rubber hardness which helps to absorb some of the vibrations. I used metal Bearings previously but the metal on metal was way to noisy. Here is a pic of my base at paint stage when the alterations were made that might explain the angles and motor position better.
    Hope this helps

    Attached Files:

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  10. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    @yellofella
    Thanks. I've order 2 motors. For TL I will try to source a weaker one here in Europe.
    Can you show me that roller blade wheels? Where did you bought them?
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  11. Rens

    Rens Member

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    Could you share a link to the motors, I tried to lookup sunrise motors but can't find anything. Searched on model number but also no results. I am currently also looking for motors for my 6dof.
    Also, how do you know they are supplier of dofreality?
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  12. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    @Rens
    Hi.
    Those motor are updated ones and are not listed on their website.
    You can contact Kathy (kathy@sunrisemotor-cn.com) and ask her for those motors. Tell her you want the same motors as Mike Melga :) It will save you a lot of time :)



    Minute 5:35, althought those were the old ones. The new ones (the ones I bought) are these:


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  13. Rens

    Rens Member

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    @Mike Melga Thanks for sharing this hug:, I have just send Kathy an email with my interest in 6 of those motors including my design with the hope she can help decide if it's a good fit. Did they also sell you that gearbox? Or where did you get it from? Looking forward to your project. :thumbs
  14. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    @Rens

    The motor is $100 with the 1:25 gearbox already fitted.
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  15. Rav3n87

    Rav3n87 Member

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    @Mike Melga

    So glad i found your thread haha, im in the market for some motors atm and struggling to find some at a half decent price, I've also contacted Kathy now as well haha

    Cheers Mate!
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  16. Rens

    Rens Member

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    Did you receive your motors yet?
  17. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    @Rens ,

    Nope. They haven't even left China. They state a 20-25 days manufacturing period.
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  18. Rens

    Rens Member

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    Ok no worries, I will check your thread every now and then :)
  19. Mike Melga

    Mike Melga Member

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    Hi.

    My motors are awaiting customs clearence. Should have them by wednesday.
    I already have the motor drivers. It's time to order the power supplies and hall sensors.
    And start building the whole thing :D
  20. Rens

    Rens Member

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    Thanks for the update. I have everything and am only waiting for the motors now. You can see my progress in my thread.