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Looking for feedback on G-Seat Implementation for a Formula Seat

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by LikeStig, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    Hello All,

    Just wanted to kick off my first post by saying, this forum is awesome. I've always dreamed of making a simulator cockpit for racing games and I've recently began to pull the trigger on designing my own G-Seat to be used in a formula-car style setup. I am either going to pre-order the Fanatec DD1 in the next week to focus on building my rig over the coming weeks, or will buy a Clubsport setup and do this build in stages.

    I plan on building the seat from fiberglass, reinforced with square steel tubing in the G-Paddles and building the supporting structure from square steel tubing. I come from a karting background and have been conceptualizing my ideas based on this experience. The G-Seat concept will accomplish my current goals, while my long term ambitions are to make a 6DOF platform to mount the G-Seat. I have zero experience with arduino programming but I am OK learning using through the information available online. At this point, because my design is unconventional I'm expecting to need some experimentation.

    With this prefaced, and the knowledge I haven't tested a G-Seat personally, I wanted to get feedback on the design principles I'm starting with. Included here are my initial drafts of my formula-style seat and how I intend to implement the G-Seat concept. I would appreciate some feedback so I can continue my design process. These are my current thoughts/conclusions on how to execute my plans, and I am hoping that I can get some alternative feedback to the conclusions I've made to better design my cockpit:

    I plan on designing my G-Seat paddles as follows:

    1. Utilizing Worm Gear motors for servos- Worm gear motors (wiper motors) have proven great for 2DOF sims, any reason they won't work well for a G-Seat? I'm not opposed to using Serv0's as others have implemented, but it seems the Worm-Gear motors would be more than adequate for non-load bearing uses. (The servo's used in the 007 G-Seat seem like a great alternative: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/007-g-seat-ultra-compact-servo-based.10470/page-3)

    2. Rib Cage paddles- I am not convinced at this time that I want to add "lift" to the back shoulders of the seat. When I've raced cars/karts, I feel the force in my rib cage and not through my back. As a result, my current design is to only have paddles which cradle my rib cage and provide pressure/lift based upon the way I've programmed the unit. Am I wrong in this conclusion that removing seat-back movement to the seat will be de minimis to my experience? I think it would be easy to design the paddles with a "back section" to lift me out of the seat as necessary. Would like to hear others experiences in practice.

    3. Leg Area Paddles- I feel I have two options on how to handle the leg area of the seat:
    A. Using paddles similar to the rib-cage paddles cradling my thighs, and adding lower supports to the paddles to lift my lower body under breaking. This would require an additional channel of servos for these two paddles.

    b. Utilizing a U-Joint (like found on a drive shaft or steering column) to connect the leg area paddles to the rib-cage paddles, mimicking the force applied to the sides of the rib cage in cornering. This design would require an additional servo to "push" the bottom of the seat under breaking, hinged from the top of the seat where the legs exit. I like this idea, as it would provide a direct force from braking (which the lower paddles aim to achieve) without altering the forces applied to the outer thighs.

    4. Seat Belt Tensioner- This seems like a no-brainer to add. I intend on using whichever servo motors I decide on for this purpose.

    Please let me know if you feel there is a better way to accomplish the G-Seat concept in a formula-style seat.

    Thank you,
    Kyle

    Attached Files:

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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. dododge

    dododge Member Gold Contributor

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    You might also look at the pneumatic designs that use air bladders to apply pressure instead of paddles. And if you're going to build the seat from scratch anyway, you could take a look at a "bead seat kit", which makes a custom-fitted racing seat by using expanding foam.
  4. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    Thanks for your input. I have considered the pneumatic designs with air bladders. Not discounting that idea entirely, but in execution I’m not sure it will have the level of precision I’m looking for. I have considered using air bladders to exert pressure on the shoulder area.

    I researched how to use an air pressure regulators with arduino servos to adjust pressure, too complex, too slow and the air compressor component isn’t doable for an apt. I’ve also looked at the setup posted here with servos contracting bladders, unfortunately not the execution I’m looking for. My concern is the “resolution” of this effect without a DOF component. Cranfield Simulators makes pro-quality F1 sims using the air bladder approach. I’ve been using this picture from their website as a reference to my approach on key pressure points. That picture is here: https://www.cranfieldsimulation.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/g-seat-with-bags.jpg

    Yes, the bead seat approach. I’ve concluded a fiberglass mold with upholstery added is the way to go for me. Comfort, and the fiberglass allows for a more compact design. The bead seat would work with a bladder system, through...
  5. early_m

    early_m Active Member

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  6. alexdixey

    alexdixey Member Gold Contributor

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    f1 Podium.jpg

    always dream collectively

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  7. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    @alexdixey Good point, it’s probably time I update where I’m at on my rig.

    Not far, but I’m making moves and have some parts ordered from Sim-Lab and am buying some 80/20 to mount it all to. My initial product will be a good place to start on things.

    The first thing I want to share is this awesome solution I found to creating a pneumatic G-Seat. Given I’m trying to build the most absolutely compact rig, this will be my first step. When researching the SFX100 DIY actuators I came across this awesome rig that used an SCN style actuator (the Frex one) to pump dual action pneumatic cylinders, which have the two direction of forces applied to the two cylinder outputs. Pretty genius and I think the best way to accomplish my goals. Pics I snagged of that rig here.

    Attached Files:

  8. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    Next, while I’m still working on my design here are some great formula style rigs out there. A few with motion, I think the SFX100 style actuators will be the direction I go after the G-Seat:

    Attached Files:

  9. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, looks to be the same 'Screwed Piston Rod Pneumatic Air Cylinder Dual Action' that I have tried in the past.
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Found a old picture of what was left after a few experiments :).

    Air Piston Parts.jpg
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  11. alexdixey

    alexdixey Member Gold Contributor

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    Sweet!! I like the 3 curved screens.
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  12. GR88

    GR88 Member

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    any updates?
  13. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    Some updates!! A little bit of a photo dump here, I got a deal on some 8020 a few hours away and put together the beginning of my rig. I’ve frankly just been enjoying the new setup and haven’t gotten around the motion side of the rig just yet. I kept the extra extrusion I have for when the next steps are ready. I designed my rig to fold into my closet, and have ideas on how to add the SFX-100 and keep this functionality. I have a start on creating an F1 seat mold, but I’m rethinking my approach on that and will take a stab at that sometime down the road. Currently I’m just using an old karting seat I’ve been hanging on for this purpose. The goal is to keep the computer tower and pneumatic cylinders on a small rolling rack. Small note, this is obviously a small footprint rig and wanted to mention the seat slider is 100% necessary to slide into the rig, haha! It does take a slight technique to get in, but what racing car doesn’t? Once you’re in, slide the seat up and my legs rest perfectly on the pedals. Lots of people comment that it looks uncomfortable on the neck etc, but in practice I’ve had zero issues.

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  14. mrt

    mrt Member

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  15. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    Wow! What does it need? It looks perfect
  16. mrt

    mrt Member

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    the rest of the motion simulator haha
  17. LikeStig

    LikeStig New Member

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    Looks great. Looks like you made a female mold? Any tricks there? Reusable?
  18. mrt

    mrt Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    https://postimg.cc/JtGy8gP1
    Here is the female plug made from fibreglass ( yes its reusable) . Loads of different options to make the initial plug. Expanding foam inside a bag, insulation foam or Mdf? Maybe you could take an impression from a race seat you have access too?
    It was covered with car body filler and sanded flat and smooth. It was finally finished with a few coats of durabuild and wet sanded and finally polished to a smoth shiny finish. see here formore info on durabuild .https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/topic/makingmoulds

    https://postimg.cc/D81wyKsK
    Here the female mould once finished after durabuild and polished ready for gelcoat. (with release pva )

    https://postimg.cc/TKGYKHq5

    The last female mould belonged to the Caterham F1 team that raced for the last time in 2014 . Was probably designed with a peticular driver in mind I've not played about with this too much but as it is in three parts its possible that you could widen it slightly to accommodate a wider driver!.
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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019