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Tutorial Graphic SimTools parameter adjustment

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by fzxj520, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Aha! There is the missing ingredient, I didn't know I had ot hit "capture min/max" for manual entry. I don't remember that being in any of the instructions but maybe I missed it. Thanks @noorbeast !
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  2. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    Let's see if I understood starting from this assumption: The greater the percentage assigned to a movement in the axis the greater the value in tuning center can be set. In other words, if for example on an axis you set 100 for the roll, I could accept a very high value in the tuning center and the simulator would be reactive. If, on the other hand, I assigned a roll value of 20 to a certain axis, I would have to set a very low value in tuning center with consequent loss of detail.
    If I set the values of my two axes (axis 1 and 2) in this way 15 roll, 15 pitch, 25 surge, 30 heave, 35 sway then altogether about 120. With these values assigned within the game and in tuning center imposed "capture max-min". I drive on the track without exaggerating and save the values that result. So I return to play with values saved here in tuning center but the simulator is not very reactive.
    It is correct rather than reducing the values in tuning center, as if you lose the details go to increase the percentage assigned to each effect in the axis configuration, even if in this way my total value exceeds 120. The increase until leaving unchanged values first saved in tuning center my simulator becomes reactive.
    Is this reasoning correct?
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  3. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Not really buddy.

    Axis Assignments is so you can mix the DOF's into a way that makes sense for your simulator.
    Tuning Center values is so that the system knows how to handle each DOF properly.

    Personally I would setup the Axis Assignments settings to what makes logical since for the simulator first. Then I would use tuning center to capture the best Min / Max as I can for the game.

    Hope that makes sense buddy!
    Take care,
    yobuddy
  4. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    yes but in my case there is a big difference beetwen the value that obtain in tuning center using "capture max- min" option and the value that I must set to have a good feel. For some value I must set very low value respect the value result from "capture max min" and this mean that I loose gamma value
  5. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    When you use the "capture max- min" option, it will capture the usable range for the game.
    After, should you need to adjust them, you can do so as needed.
    (which is what I believe you are doing buddy).

    However, it really does affect how you allocate your axis assignment settings.
    As these settings get configured to how you built your simulator.
    (Or what kind of sim you have)

    How much range your sim can replicate from the game depends on the sim itself.
    If the sim can only tilt 10deg left and right, and you want a 1 to 1 ride from the game, you will only be able to match what happens on the screen up to 10% tilt.

    I hope I'm making some sense here buddy?
    Take care,
    yobuddy
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  6. marco balletta

    marco balletta Member

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    Hi guys, I have a few questions .

    1) When I do the capture max/min in the tuning center , some of the axes get a very narrow range (ie. +2 -2) , why do I get such narrow ranges and how much of an incremental or decremental of these numbers affects the rig compared to changes done to axes that have a wider range (ie . 7 -7)? I mean how minimum is the change in that number (+2 -2) that has still some sort of effect on the rig ?

    2) Also, I notice that to yaw it is assigned the value (180 -180) but yaw is not even active in my axes set up. Yaw is assigned to extra 1. Would I need to change that yaw number too along with the numbers in extra 1 to have changes in the yaw?

    3) the data output Raw stays always to zero for me. Do those numbers need to be changed manually and what values should be?

    Thanks

    Attached Files:

  7. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    It's what the game provides. It really does not matter to be honest.

    All games we have currently can do a 360, so this setting is correct.

    No, because you are not using it, you using traction loss from extra1, so you just need to adjust the extra1 max / min values.

    This is the output from the game, you will get data here when the game is running.

    Take care buddy!
    yobuddy
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  8. marco balletta

    marco balletta Member

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    How much of a difference there is in changing the number between +2 and -2 ? I mean, what is the minimum value that make the difference when changing that number ?

    +1.5. -1.5

    1 -1

    0.5 -0.5

    Or the changes happens even with a difference of 0.25?
  9. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    What changes buddy?

    The input from the game gets broken down into a +- (%) of a axis used.
    It's well above the 32 bit range in raw form.

    Take care,
    yobuddy
  10. marco balletta

    marco balletta Member

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    Sorry, I do not understand the answer
  11. Llewelyn

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  12. Arazok

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    I read the whole thread now the 2nd time, but I am still unsure, if I got it right.
    So, that`s what I understand:

    In the Game Data - Output fields of the Tuning Center are the telemetry values from the game (when running). The range is irrelevant and depends of the game.
    When you capture, you get the max/min values out of those data fields into your Max/Min fields, where you can also manually adapt them, if necessary.
    The meaning of the values is as follows:

    Example: Captured Max value for roll: 3.521

    That means that this value is taken as maximum (all values above, e.g. 4.0, are set to 3.521) as input for the rig /axis movement but also inccoperating the assigned axis value for "roll".
    If roll is set to 100% in GameEngine, and rig has 20° roll movement and when game is delivering 3.521 for roll (or above), axis is moving 100%, hence 20° degree.
    If assigned axis movement for roll is 50%, the axis would move to 10° degree, the same as if the game data would be 1.7605 and axis movement for roll at 100%.

    When you manually set the Max value to e.g. 4.0, then your axis will move only to 17,6° degree (88% of 20° degree, as 3.521 is 88% of 4.0) when a data value of 3.521 is sent by the game (assuming 100% axis assignment to roll).
    --> Higher values in Max/Min in TuningCenter: Faster reaction of axis, but not the full range of axis (assuming not more than 100% is assigned to axis).

    Is my assumption correct ?
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    The smaller the TC value the snappier the rig response, but over less range, see here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/graphic-simtools-parameter-adjustment.9054/#post-113925
  14. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    Ok, but this is somehow irritating. You do not enter degrees into Min/Max fields for roll but rather a value, depending of the data value coming from the game, right ?
  15. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    It would be helpful if someone can post the algorithm behind it.
    Say, we have these values/variables:
    roll_current (from game), roll_max (in TC), roll_axis_assign (in percentage).
    Which value is sent to the rig ? (assuming a sampling rate of 1024 / 10 bits)

    My assumption:

    xr = roll_current / roll_max * roll_axis_assign
    and then xr spread (according to sampling resolution and ADC) into an integer value (e.g. for xr = 0.0 resulting value would be 511 for an 10 bit output range.)
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  16. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Simtools uses the value from the game.
    If value out of minimum and maximum (in tuning center), it's cropped to minimum and maximum.
    If you are outputting 10 bits from Simtools to the hardware, it's values from 0 to 1023.
    For example you have -10 to +10 in tuning center then:

    Game outputs -10 => 0 output to hardware
    Game outputs -12 => value cropped to -10 => 0 output to hardware
    Game outputs 0 => 511 output to hardware
    Game outputs 10 => 1023 output to hardware
    Game outputs 15 >= value cropped to 10 => 1023 output to hardware

    The resulting degrees/position on the hardware depends on how you treat the 0 to 1024 values on your hardware.
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  17. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Forgot the percentage...

    If you specify 50%, before remapping minimum/maximum to bit range, the value is affected by that percentage.
    So in the above example for 50 %

    Game outputs -10 => Apply% value = -5 => 255 output to hardware
    Game outputs -12 => value cropped to -10=> Apply% value = -5 => 255 output to hardware
    Game outputs 0=> Apply% value = 0 => 511 output to hardware
    Game outputs 10=> Apply% value = 5 => 766 output to hardware
    Game outputs 15 >= value cropped to 10=> Apply% value = 5 => 766 output to hardware

    Here the idea is that you only use a percentage of that effect.
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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  18. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    Ok, that is exactly how I understand it.
    But then a higher value for Min/Max means a smaller (but faster) movement of the axis.
    Example: Game provides values between -7 and 7. If Max/Min is set to 7 / -7 and the current value is 7, then 1023 (10 bit ADC) is output to hardware (assuming axis assignment is 100%) which is maximal movement of axis.
    Now, if Max/Min is set manually to 10/-10, and the current value is the same (7) then only 717 is the output value (which results in a lesser movement of the axis, but quicker, as this point is reached earlier in time).

    Or is this completely nonsense what I am writing ???
  19. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @Arazok,
    the Smaller the value in the tuning center the faster the output is.
    Yes, but you have more range. So it takes longer to max the output out.
    There for a values of -7 and 7 would make for faster output over -10 and 10.
    Take care,
    yobuddy
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  20. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    Ok, I guess now I got it. With range you mean: If max/min are lowered, you spread a smaller range to the same output range (e.g values from 0 - 1023).
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