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Showroom Full frame 2DOF G-Seat with Wind & Vibe

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by MarkusB, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My ribs were shielded by the metal vest, so that I did not feel much of this body part. It was more my shoulders that were pressed against the upper side of the seat. And I was pressed back into the backrest on forward accelerations. For this reason I added a thick foam cuhion to the backrest (see the photo below).
    CushionedBackrest.JPG
    Bot the effect of the g-vest was not only caused by the pressure against the seat, but also by the fast movements of my upper body.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    @RiftFlyer, I know that your first g-seat build also used the same motor for moving one backrest paddle plus - when moving to the opposite direction - pulling the shoulder belt of the same side.
    What were your experiences with the sway force? On right turns, the left paddle applies pressure and the right shoulder belt tensions. For me, the paddle movement feels good, because it simulates the centrifugal force of the turn. But the tensioning belt on the other side is somehow illogical, isn't it? This combination may be suitable for "yaw" though when flying a helicoptor. I think I will give this a try. But for now I have disables "sway" completely and use the backrest paddles only for "surge".
  3. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Using the stick in the middle was not possible for me, but I also did not need it. The photo below shows the front bowden cable that was meant for pulling my upper body forward when braking. On this photo, the wheel is lifted for easily entering the seat. But even when lowering it, the cable was not in the way.
    GVest_Connected.JPG
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  4. dododge

    dododge Member Gold Contributor

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    These points remind me of my Geko G-seat, which takes a somewhat similar approach and has some of the same issues. In the Geko design you basically strap on the upper [moving] part of the seat like a backpack and then it pushes and pulls your torso around in 2DOF.

    However for it to work right you have to put it on tight, and at least for the, uh, huskier among us the straps can sometimes ride up your chest or dig into your armpits. The seat back essentially applies a directional force rather than moving to a specific position and it and expects you to constantly push back hard enough to stall or back-drive the actuators. If you just relax and go along with the ride it'll end up banging against its limits. So when letting other people try it you not only have to deal with the straps but also have to give them a crash course in how to use it, and unless they get a really long session to acclimate to it, it's probably mostly going to feel weird.

    Once you get attuned to it it's pretty good at what it does and you learn to anticipate its forces and lean into turns etc -- but it's not without its downsides. For a hop-in-and-go setup or one where you expect guests or kids to be using it, a paddle/bladder/tensioner system is probably a lot more user-friendly.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. alexdixey

    alexdixey Member

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    Nice work Lancelot!!
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  6. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

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    Wrong thread or wrong name.
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    I think it was a joking reference by @alexdixey to the medieval knight armor used for the chest plate.
  8. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

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    LOL. Your right. Sorry for the noise.
  9. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Nearly 9 months went by since my last post in this thread, and I party used them for further tinkering on my rig, but primarily for non-simulator activities.

    Concerning my rig: I tried some more approaches for the backrest part of the g-seat, like pneumatic bladders (did not convince me) and after this separate, bowden cable driven paddles for sway and surge. Sway worked quite well at the end, but surge didn't. Besides, I did not manage to achieve smooth enough roll and pitch movements, although I spent quite some time with tuning. Maybe one reason was that my rig alone had a weight of about 55 kg.
    Last but not least, the heave effect was not strong enough, especially because I focus on flying.

    Last week I decided to make the following changes:
    • Upgrade from 2 DOF to 3 DOF for improving the heave force. The actual up/down movement of the seat shall be supported by g-seat paddles.
    • Put the main focus on the g-seat part and use the roll & pitch movements more as an add-on with rather small movements that just support the g-seat paddles.
    • Change the rig from full-frame back to seat mover for reducing the weight of the moving part. With the smaller roll/pitch movements this should be ok.
    I mainly got inspired for these changes by the motion-integrated g-seat from Bergison. But also @SeatTime 's recent considerations left their marks in my brain.

    Right now my rig lies in pieces, but I plan to revive it during the winter season.
    Rig in Pieces.JPG

    At first I worked on the stabilizing heave support with a set of rolls:
    Heave Support 01.JPG Heave Support 02.JPG

    Then I saw the solution of @Tim McGuire. Luckily his thread has been brought to the top by a new post just in time, and I really like the mechanics explained here.
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  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Oh, sorry:oops: :D. Nice video:thumbs. There are some things I agree with Tim, but not all. Eg. When you accelerate, the base of the seat will give a false cue if it lifts up under your thighs, this should only happen when you are decelerating. I could go on but I won't, as I do like his sim.
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Many of us have been down that initial chaos upgrade path, this was mine: [​IMG]

    I am looking forward to following the next phase of your project :thumbs
    • Like Like x 1
  12. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Just FI as I do not know exactly what you are going to implement, but independently controlling both the seat base and back IMO gives you way more latitude for applying/adjusting the correct forces/cues to the body. EG, For Surge the ability of the seat to slide forward and back (not tilt) allows you to be either pushed into the seat back during acceleration, or moved slightly away from the seat back during deceleration. Anyway food for thought.
  13. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

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    Reset it all.
    Repeat.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  14. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

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    Well said
  15. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks for your thoughts, @SeatTime. I totally agree with you: The more independently controlled parts you have, the more flexible are your configuration options.

    I watched Bergison's Integrated G-Seat video several times and read the description on his web site. Actually I am impressed on how he got this done with only 3 motors. However, I don't plan to go this far and will use all 6 motors I have available. In this way, I will try to make a compromise between simplicity and flexibility.

    My plan is the following:
    • Use 3 motors for building a 3 DOF platform. These 3 motors shall also move the seat base paddles, similar to the Bergison seat. For example: positive 'heave' force moves the seat down and raises both base paddles, while 'sway' force tilts the seat to one side and lifts one of the base paddles.
      I plan to achieve this by fixing the outer edges of the paddles to the non-moving ground, while the inner edges are mounted to the seat. Also the belts around my thights could be tightended in a similar way on negative heave forces.
    • 2 motors will be used for the backrest paddles (1 motor per paddle).
    • 1 motor will be used for the harness tensioner.
    I saw your impressing list of 11 actuators, and the linear movements of the seat base and backrest seem very promising. I will go on with the tilting movements just for simplicity and I hope to achieve a result that will be satisfying enough for not ripping everything apart again. Time will tell...
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  16. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Yes, this is a quite familiar sight. I hope I get out of this mess soon, although my wife is happy that my precious seat has disintegrated and disappeared into the workshop in the basement.
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  17. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good. FI, I now don't expect to use any more then 8 actuators by expanding the use of some parts being secondary (single actuator driving move then one part), or parasitically driven like my seat back paddles. Look forward to seeing how all this works out for you. My Wife is certainly impressed by the smaller footprint and easier access of the new sim.