1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

FlyPT Mover

Discussion in 'FlyPt Mover' started by pmvcda, May 30, 2019.

  1. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    You can already play the files in Mover.
    But you need to have 3 files. Next version allows less files.
  2. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    Sure I am talking about actuators. My system can manage steady 30Hz which is fine for this kind of noise. I can imagine that modern servos with internal encoders can do much better than that.
  3. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    We can use it, but I have to think on how to benefit from it.
    We can do perlin noise in 1d 2d 3d...
    Making 1d, is just noise with a smooth filter.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    I’ve set up the my phyphox experience to output gyro and accel with g in one file. It would be great if it’s possible to play it back from one file.

    You can find the qr code to the experience in the first post in this thread:

    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...ox-real-life-data-recorder.13646/#post-182739
    • Like Like x 1
  5. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    OK, I will take a look.
    For now, I'm looking for the 3 files inside the zip and open them if they exist.
    In current version, it only opens if you have the 3 files. In the next, it needs only one file.
  6. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    Thank you for checking that.

    Just one other thing btw.

    Could you imagine to apply a soft transition when the platform leaves “out of pose” state ??

    If it’s possible it would be a huge feature !

    Best
  7. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    london uk
    Balance:
    7,611Coins
    Ratings:
    +878 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Hey @pmvcda just wanna say thanks here for Helping with the actuator assignment order tip , all sorted for now and Motion seems way better than before without the cockpit twisting . Think i'll need to move my C of G closer to the center of the rig but all in all its much better Thanks the Tip on using the Suspension module to confirm correct actuator placement Worked a treat :)
  8. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    I explored more in details the mover’s noise modules for flaps and landing gear especially taking away the HPF I was using previously.

    I am surprised how impressive the results can be while you combine both, the heave AND the roll.

    @pmvcda please put in standby my request about the perlin noise as what I get now seems very close to my representation of small turbulences due to flaps and gear.

    There is only one thing left I wasn’t able to achieve.
    It’s about the landing gear vertical “kick” while it starts to go up OR down.

    I guess that additionally to the noise, we could separately map a small bump from datarefs Nr 14.

    Does it make sense to you ?
  9. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    933Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Hi FlyPT,

    I am having trouble getting the smoothing I am after in the mover application. I get the motion I am after for heave in dirt rally 2 with simtools 75% smoothing and about 200mm of travel (when you do the math). I can not for the life of me get anywhere close to this feeling in mover. I have tried many different variations of the 3 low pass filters including stacking them. I have tried using the logistic filter to cap max/min with some cush. I have even tried bringing in the simtools data to study how things are scaled and what they look like with the graphic viewer (such a useful tool). I have come to the conclusion that the type of smoothing I am after is different from your low pass filter choices. Looking back through the forum it appears sim tools smoothing is " a mean value of the values coming in"

    https://www.xsimulator.net/simtools-game-engine/#Filters

    or a rolling average.

    I wonder if you could implement a rolling average filter and if anybody else could benefit from it besides me.


    I also noticed the raw motion from simtools heave is different than the raw mover vertical acceleration or vertical speed. Both represent changes in the z direction but they are different. I can post some images of the difference if it helps. Do you think there is a possibility that one plugin or the other has the wrong data?
  10. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    933Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Here is a video to let you see what I'm working on.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    Well, I believe the smoothing In Simtools 2.4 is based on third order exponential average.
    You can easily construct the same with mover.
    Just apply 3 times EMA LP filter (simple one - NOT double or triple)
  12. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I have the rolling average and I will enable it in the next version.
    But the problem might be with the dirt source.
    Dirt has no vertical acceleration output, only speed.
    I'm calculating acceleration from the speed and it might not be the best solution what I have. I'm going to look better at it.
    Maybe you could try vertical speed with an EMAHP, and some EMALP to smooth it.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    933Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    That's interesting, do you think the @yobuddy patch for simtools provides vertical speed for heave? I find it pretty strange how much heave I get by accelerating and decelerating on flat ground. It shows in my video too if I stomp on the break I drop 10 inches haha.

    If it helps any the difference I felt between simtools smoothing and anything I could reproduce with mover was the rate of change was always too fast with mover. I couldn't get the big moves and the slower rate of change. I understand the motion I'm going for isnt very popular but maybe that can change.
    I will try the high/low pass idea when I get another tuning session later this week.
    Thanks for putting in the rolling average!

    I would love to understand this better. Why do you think its a third order exponential average and what is the difference of 3 EMALP vs TEMALP? I will try this too when I can.


    Thanks for the help guys!
  14. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    The main difference is the entry curve.

    Dema or Thema have a different entry curve in comparison to 3xEMA (third order)

    Basically using third order ema gives you a nice s curve.

    On the top of it dema and thema have a tendency to provide overshoots while third order of ema doesn’t.

    If I recall well that’s what @yobuddy choose as an upgrade from a poorly performing simple moving average SMA which was doing bad job in Simtools 2.3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Maybe add that dema and tema respond faster with less lag, that's why they are there.
  16. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    berlin
    Balance:
    5,241Coins
    Ratings:
    +236 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, 6DOF
    Small update.
    Take off and return to runway example in xplane’s beech baron.

    Pretty coherent 6-dof Mover response.

    Rumble, touch down kick, landing gear noise etc. Pretty everything is more or less well simulated.

    Happy new year to all.

    035743EA-F75D-476E-AD97-0146CE58D47A.png
    • Like Like x 2
  17. cfischer

    cfischer Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Colorado
    Balance:
    933Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Hey FlyPT,
    Just day dreaming here, do you think it would be possible to change the gain of a value with another value? I would love to increase the gain (or maybe the smoothing) of my suspension data with vehicle speed in order to give a greater sense of how fast you're going.
  18. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    772
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,341Coins
    Ratings:
    +768 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Hello everyone.
    Trying to get Dirt Rally moving.
    I put the latest mover plugin. Patched Dirt Rally with Simtools patch.
    Connected with port 20777.
    Used this piece of code:
    FlyPT Mover Interface

    No movement.
    Am I missing something?
    I'm using a Asseto Corsa setup to test. I do not dare put more power yet.
  19. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    The use of other values is on the list of things to do.
    In reality, I could add it now. The code is 90&% done. But as undocumented feature (for now) if you want to.

    Well, I can take a look at it for the next version.
  20. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,238
    Location:
    Portugal
    Balance:
    9,617Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,287 / 13 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Are you sure you have put the code in the right folder (got someone mixing Dirt1 and 2)?
    If that's ok, try to connect and disconnect the source to see if it works.
    I have no problems here. In the current version I'm working, sometimes I loose connection when restarting Mover with the game running, but that's a bug for 2.9, because I'm making some sources changes.