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Question DIY FFB Wheel Motors?

Discussion in 'DIY peripherals' started by Jonatha.F, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    Hello everybody, I'm currently looking in to building my own FFB wheel and have decided to go the STM32F4 route. I have everything planned except the motor+potential gearing and PSU which are motor dependent. Can the DIY veterans on here give me some advice between the different MY10xx models or if they know anything better? It would be awesome to go DD but belt drive is also ok. I have seen some setups get high pitch noise and others require custom soldering and own motor drivers which I don't want. Preferred max torque is 10nm+ and still good fidelity/response. So guys what do you recommend?
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    Yes, I'm talking about brushed DC motors=)
  4. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    If talking about MY motors, You can use my1016, 1025, 1020. The main goal anyway, not to exceed the motors rated current, given on the nameplate, in stall mode. This is the limit, where the motor will not overheat and get damage, with no armature good cooling provided. Put an amp meter, or at least, watch for the temperature. The casing is all right with 60c. You can use 12 volts, and even one bts driver if using 12 volts then. Psu is allright about 400 watts or what ever. (12 volts 33 amps.) Gears 1:3, 1:6 for my 1016, 1025. These motors provide enough torque. And also keep in mind that mmos has some limit compared to arduinos soft if smth. In terms of torque. Kind of safer without any set ups.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  5. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    Interesting! So you are saying that Arduino is better performance-wise with emc or aiwave than mmos? I am familiar with BS Sim but thought his rig was below my goals (below 10+NM and he is using 1016). I know its a hard question but do you know why some sims give high pitch noise? I did some research around the Caravangoes mystery motor and think I have an almost similar motor, link below, what do think? I have also seen a video of a MY1020 setup working flawlessly in DD but another Italian guy who tried the same had a bunch of problems (noise) how is that even possible?
  6. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...69.html?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.eb823e5fIeefAu
    specs of this motor is 250watt/24V/1000rpm stall is 6Nm and current is 2.4Nm. This is pretty close to Caravan specs and same length too

    My1020 working like a champ in DD but how come he has got no high pitch noise? I am really tempted to go this route. He is using 4 H-bridges could that be the answer.

    My1020 not working good but only using 2 H-bridges. Annoying high pitch noise.
  7. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    I'll reply later on more expanded, but the pwm sound, is only because Manu used low pwm frequency, 4 or 8 khz in that tests. I reckon 4. Use 16 khz and higher, and there"ll be no sound. Simple as that.
  8. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    So P.s. MMOS draws less current to the motor. You can test that on your own. It's like EMC with no Constant force applied, and 100 gain. You should look up for it. Also, that’s why I've got a big doubt that those fellas with MY1020 have got to use lots of BTS drivers, and PSU with 100 apms, when going to 12v, with that motors. The motor do not draws the stall current with MMOS as they expect it to be with 12v power supply. Say MY1025 takes only 12amps draw with MMOS, but it's calculated stall is ~40amps. If EMC Gain, Constant 100% - it takes that, and get overheated way quicker. Well at least with no extra programming or something of a kind.
  9. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    Ok understood but I don't want to burn anything.So Emc is stronger but MMOS is safer/cooler. To me, it looks like most people choose MMOS or switches to MMOS after a while and that's because of temps you say. Tricky question but why did Manu not turn his PWM to 16 in his demos, many people wondering about the sound in the comments=) Anyway I think I have got a good understanding now of how to pair motor with PSU but I am still going back and forth on what motor. DD is nice but lots of work (drilling in motor etc) and things that can go wrong. So just to make my life easier, if you were to buy a new rig today Sieben would you go DD or belt and what motor would you choose for that? If you want you can also recommend PSU specs and amount of h-bridges.
  10. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    I guess MY1020 48v 1000w is good choice. )


    Manus' MY1020 have got smth around 6nm in DD. You should read all his thread. It's pretty interesting. Including the maddex build with his motor from vacuum cleaner as I get it)


    Undervolted to a 12v, 3 BTS

    The thing that I explain here, is that it really could be an odd thing to take 2-3 BTS IF you are in the MMOS, and with MY1020 motors even too, although I may not be absolutely sure about 1020, and at least will give an example to 1025, because the picture is quite the same. There might be quite a full stall current draw for that motors under 12 volts with EMC, (might be ~40amps, but I’ve got to measure it, because judge on other things) with Constant 100%. And still one BTS do not run into protection with it. And I run EMC Lite it has all in 100% and that was allright. But I've got to reduce the Iracing Force slider to some 20% FFB because that was already just crazy.


    And only 12 amps draw with MMOS. So for you information. Anyway, stay in the rated current of a motor under it's stalls, and it'll be fine. It's pretty much important thing. Hope that'll be clear explanation on the matter)

    If you go for 24 volts, there is no other way then 2-3 BTS then with MY's or other drivers including custom builds. But remember that Italian's returned to 12v after experiments. )
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  11. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    Searched a bit but couldn't find your builds output. What's your stall and rated torque? Otherwise, what do you think of My1020 24v 500w belt-driven 1:2 or 1:3 ratio undervolted to a 12v 500w PSU, with what amp you suggest motor is rated at 26,7A? lower or higher you think. and then 3 BTS. Do you think heat will be ok or do I need custom cooling? Sorry for all the asking
  12. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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  13. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    I could also just copy this build which would be easy but then I would need to turn PWM up to get noise away, right? But then the FFB would feel bad or?
  14. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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  15. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    My bad really. I will rephrase the question. Do you think the setup below would give me really good ffb? better/stronger FFB at 16PWM than the latest video I linked also switched to 16pwm to get rid of noise?
    specs:
    MY1020 48v 1000w geared up to 1:3
    Undervolted to a 12v, 360watt, 30amp PSU to keep everything cool and under control
    3 BTS
    according to https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/diy-ffb-steering-wheel-mmosffb-in-progress.7769/page-23 it should give me 12Nm constant and 24Nm max.
  16. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    I guess MY1020 48v 1000w is good choise. )


    Manus' MY1020 have got smth around 6nm in DD. You should read all his thread. It's pretty interesting. Including the maddex build with his motor from vacuum cleaner as I get it)


    Undervolted to a 12v, 3 BTS

    The thing that I explain here, is that it really could be an odd thing to take 2-3 BTS IF you are in the MMOS, and with MY1020 motors even too, although I may not be absulutly sure about 1020, and at least will give an example to 1025, because the picture is quite the same. There might be quite a full stall current draw for that motors under 12 volts with EMC, (might be ~40amps, but I’ve got to measure it, because judge on other things) with Constant 100%. And still one BTS do not run into protection with it. And I run EMC Lite it has all in 100% and that was allright. But I've got to reduce the Iracing Force slider to some 20% FFB because that was already just crazy.


    And only 12 amps draw with MMOS. So for you information. Anyway, stay in the rated current of a motor under it's stalls, and it'll be fine. It's pretty much important thing. Hope that'll be clear explanation on the matter)

    If you go for 24 volts, there is no other way then 2-3 BTS then with MY's or other drivers including custom builds. But remember that Italian's returned to 12v after experiments. )
  17. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    You really think of everything. According to doddynco on the same thread, he says that the My1020 would be drawing 25amps/300watts in 12v so you are probably right that I only need one BTS. He also says you would need to run at 24V to run over the 43amp max of BTS but since the BTS are cheaper than shipping I would rather order one too much than burn one and have to order 2 new. But since my PSU is a bit more powerful than what the motor draws in 12V (my psu is 360w/30amp) maybe I need 2 BTS therefore or does the under volt limit power consumption? I will run MMOs because of stability mainly, which would also help me run just 1 BTS? Otherwise do you think my plan is starting to get ready to be ordered?
    PS I have read the suggested threads and website and they are interesting but google translate can only do so much. I'm not Italian=)
  18. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    I've got 400w PSU 12v.33.3a and run one BTS. If You take 24v,10a PSU, and even get low on the FFB amount, You will need several BTS. I advise to order several just for case. Anyway, it has protection shutdown, so you can be calm with it. And when you'll got it, you will have to put away the radiator, put the thermopaste or silicon pads, but first one is better, in order the chips in bts do not short circuit via the radiator, and put radiator back in it's place then.

    Allright) Neither am I. I'm Russian. I translate it to English. But find it's quite well enough to comprehend ).
  19. Jonatha.F

    Jonatha.F New Member

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    Yes, I know how to cool BTS and I have decided to run 12v and according to doddynco the 1020 in 48v 1000w will draw 25amps/300watts in 12v. What watt and ampere would you suggest for optimal performance running at 12v. Do I gain anything by running a psu over 25amps/300watts?
  20. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    U can run as much amps PSU as you like, it'll be better for the PSU, but the thing that motor only will take what it takes. You should know it.
  21. Sieben

    Sieben Active Member

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    I know how to cool BTS

    It's advise more even not about cooling. It's all about to make it work absolutely. It can not work with chips short circuit via radiator) And then cooling. When you'll get'em you'll understand. And of course, to eliminate the gap between chips and radiator too)