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DIY FFB Steering wheel (MMosFFB ) (In Progress)

Discussion in 'DIY peripherals' started by Alexey, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    Hi there,

    I've detailed how to do this half way down this page:
    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/diy-ffb-steering-wheel-mmosffb-in-progress.7769/page-16
  2. elnino

    elnino Member

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    Thanks for that - I can see how that has the desired result but I'm not convinced its the best way to do it. All else fails, I'll put some LEDs on the other pins to see if it does what I expect.
  3. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    I was running my motor at around half its rated voltage so that might explain why I was needing 50% minimum gain. It worked great for me as you can set 50% minimum in RF2. I think with AC you can make a .CSV file to do the same thing.

    It was built from a T500 with a broken PCB. I added a second t500 motor and a larger belt, ran it at around 14v to prevent too much heat (24v motor) and it worked great - noticeably stronger than a CSW2.5. On paper I think I worked it out at about 18nm peak torque, and about 140rpm. If i implemented some serious cooling it would have probably coped at 20v and put out over 25nm, but at that point the belts are far beyond their design and I would be risking the motors.

    As a side note: anyone building their own wheel should consider running the motor less than it's rated voltage as it will create much less heat and need less gear reduction.
  4. elnino

    elnino Member

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    I am building a DD with a MY1020 1000W 48v @ 12v. Should run up to about 80 amps, that's enough for me. Not sure on the actual nM but in testing it's pretty brutal. Has been a long term project (about a year) but finally getting back into it.

    I have 3 X IBT_2 in parallel to run it, 1000ppr encoder and the STM32 'DIYMORE' board - Much smaller than a disco. Everything is mounted with a fan on the back of the motor to draw air through it and cool the IBT_2 at the same time.
  5. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    Sound like a great project. I always wandered, is there any notching on the MY1020?

    If that motor was geared down 1:5 and run at 24v, assuming 100% efficiency, you could hit around 50a peak, drawing 1200w, and an output of 40nm constant torque (which likely means 80nm peak!)@300rpm. Even though the motor will exceed it's rated current from time to time, it would be very unlikely for the motor to overheat in this configuration because it will be able to overpower you and be able to move quite freely.

    Running it as a DD @12v you will get 4nm constant (8nm peak) at 750rpm, which is too high as the low(ish) torque wouldn't be able to accelerate the wheel to that speed in a reasonable time (100ms or less ideally). So you may aswell sacrifice some top speed for some torque. At 12 volts it would perform better geared down 1:3 as this would output 12nm constant (24nm peak) @250rpm, and drawing around 25amps/300w. This would feel very similar to a MIGE 130ST-M10010, only without the resolution/fidelity.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that by gearing, the effective resolution per wheel rotation will increase.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  6. elnino

    elnino Member

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    At the moment I have no intention of gearing it up. It's going on a motion sim so wanting to keep weight down as much as i can. It may change later but I'll worry about it then. I'm not after break-wrist force, just something reasonable. It's still going to be over double of the G27 i was running before.

    There is cogging on the motor but with a wheel on it, it's barely noticeable.
  7. Llewelyn

    Llewelyn Member

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    Hello,does this work with the arduino also?When I try this pin configuration there is no ffb,as soon as I go back to the R_EN and L_EN at 5v ffb is back.Any ideas?
  8. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    When you use this configuration you must set the FFB minimum to 50% in game. What sim are you using?
  9. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves New Member

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    I don’t need to do that. Using EMC.
  10. Llewelyn

    Llewelyn Member

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    These are my settings below,but they only work with the R/L EN AT 5v .The sim I use is LFS.
    working wheel set ed.png working wheel set 2 ed.png
  11. elnino

    elnino Member

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    Based on the instructions from @doddynco, pretty sure you need to set the command mode to PWM + DIR, not PWM +/-

    Based on my understanding, this works because each side is 50% on and 50% off. Therefore it imitates a freewheel situation. Then it is biased to one side or the other to create force.

    I had a look at the signals from the other 2 complimentary pins in H Bridge mode and it does not seem like it will do what we want either.
  12. Llewelyn

    Llewelyn Member

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    Okay will try it in the PWM + DIR mode,think I did try it but will make sure.Thanks.
  13. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    Which EMC version are you using?
  14. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    This is the discover board Pwm pin out section. It works both in the 'old way' H-bridge and the frictionless way 'PWM_DIR' .

    Using the IBT_2, you can only get frictionless feedback if you use PWM_DIR mode. This is because when DIR is on, DIR Complementary (reversed DIR) is off, and vice versa. This means the h-bridge is completely open (not acting as a generator) when there is no PWM input, allowing the wheel to rotate freely.

    I'm not very familar with the arduino as it was a while ago I used it - I realsied the code missed out some important elements of the FFB (not sure if they're fixed with the most recent EMC) and moved to a discovery board.

    If there's a way on the Arduino to output DIR and a reversed DIR at the same time, you can do frictionless FFB. Otherwise you should get the discovery board

    Anschluss.jpg PwmPins.png
  15. tadope

    tadope New Member

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    Hi all, i'm excited to find this thread. I've been hunting for info like this for a while.
    My situation is that I have a couple old wheels that I want to upgrade for more power.
    I'd like at least csw v2 power, or direct drive level power, but I can't afford to pay the cost.

    My idea is to use the thrustmaster t300 base, and swap out the motor with the biggest cheap brushless dc motor I can get.
    The problem I have is the PCB. Is there any way to get a bigger more powerful motor working with the thrustmaster electronics?
    I have fans and heatsinks for the chips, but I think that the electronic flow will kill it anyways.
  16. doddynco

    doddynco New Member

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    Hellooo,

    You can certainly do things to a T300 to upgrade the power. If you have a working T300, you can swap out the power supply to one with a higher voltage. 30v has been proven safe, 36v has been done but you would be more than doubling power/heat of the motor at that point - which is a tall order and would likely not last long. If I remember right the stock power supply is 2.2a x 24v = 52.8w which is about the rated wattage of the motor. Watts are total power, and also represent the amount of heat generated.

    @24v 2.2a x 24v = 52.8w
    @30v 2.75a x 30v = 82.5w A very worthy upgrade if you don't mind the risk.
    @36 3.3a x 36v = 118.8w (likely too high). The belts will really struggle at this point, if the motor doesn't die swiftly.

    For comparison, a t500 is 6.67a x 24v = 160w

    So with the stock motor, you're not going to get CSW2 performance.

    You can swap out the motor but you won't be able to use the Thrustmaster electronics. You just can't sorry. You'll need a brushed motor, a STMDiscovery board, an Omron Encoder and an IBT_2 discover board. Which ever motor you buy, you'd be best running it at around 60-70% voltage. This is because in a consumer wheel, they have complicated current limiting to keep beneath the rated motor output. This is because stall current is typically 5x what a motor can sustain at it's normal operating voltage. It's much easier for us to buy a bigger motor, and to run it at a lower voltage. A good upgrade would be a 36v 100w motor (you run it at 24v) - this would draw at max output around 200w.

    Another option is to combine the two T300's into one (I did the same with a T500 but with a Discovery board) You'll need a longer belt, a long time studying the PCB to figure out where the mosfet input signals are being generated one the host PCB, then with some luck and some magic have the other PCB as a slave (use it just for the mosfets) Insert both boards into one unit obviously. I would not do this as it's very difficult - It would take me ages and with a very high chance of failure - ruining 2 t300's.
  17. tadope

    tadope New Member

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    Ok, sounds like motor swap isn't safe.
    although it has been done with the t500. I hear it's a common mod actually.
    65w to 85w upgrade. That's why I figured I could do it to my t300.
    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...tor-upgrade-65w-to-85w-success-01-23-16.7797/

    Another note: my t300 was a "forparts" ebay purchase. it had a ton of corrosion and would oscillate back and forth.
    but i seem to have it working now with some software updates and cleaning.

  18. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves New Member

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    From 0.9 to 1.0
  19. nopilpl

    nopilpl New Member

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    Hi
    I ordered new bts and connected everything. When i turn on FFB, the motor "jumps", it rotataes then power supply turns off for few seconds, and then turns on.
    How to fix it?
  20. nopilpl

    nopilpl New Member

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    Here is link to the video where it haappens: . I tried it on many ffb effects but it happened every time
    The fan cause this sound in background