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Commercial 3DOF Motion Platform Stepper Motor development questions

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by marc79, May 31, 2016.

  1. marc79

    marc79 Member

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    Ok Thank You Historiker first let me get a working platform and see if I can use his software on the machines I am building
  2. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    For the record I deleted all my posts myself since this thread should not even exist in the first place due to the fact it was started on the false pretext that this was a DIY builder and build. It should be deleted in its entirety imo then if the thread starter wants, it should be started in a new thread under the proper headings so members know ahead of time that they are assisting a commercial entity in building their rig for them!
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. marc79

    marc79 Member

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    for the record I am not building these machines to resell them only to demo them with VR, What I am selling is the VR headsets. I do not know if that changes anything, first let me wait to get my motion controller because the system I am getting comes with there own software, I might not need to use simtools in the first place. Before I can jump to any conclusions of using it, let me see what my supplier offers me.
  4. marc79

    marc79 Member

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    no one is building a rig for me, I am probably doing most of that myself, no one is going to make the metal platform or make me actuators. The only thing I might ask on here is to get help changing software, in case I do not like the one my system comes with.
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    What you have in mind is a form of commercial use. SimTools 2.0 will introduce what is called an 'Entertainment License' for public rides, and the license will need to be renewed annually: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/simtools-2-0-question-and-answer.8175/#post-99841
  6. marc79

    marc79 Member

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  7. marc79

    marc79 Member

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    Ok @@yobuddy sounds good, well I want to pay u more depending the success of this business, we are trying to get them all over romania, but I am still in the process of picking actuators. I have found two suppliers one that can get me with a control system for 1600 USD x3 actuators that have 100mms with pc game control system but I think is that too slow? Then another supplier that is selling them for 1550USD with drivers only, so see from there, I will need help doing a step by step getting them to work with ur software. I really suck at this and I do not have alot of time to search this whole forum. so if some one can please give me the drop list what I need to do too get these actuators to work with simtools that would be awesome, also I have issues making a 3dof sim tool actuator, if anyone can share me there file so i can just get a sample then I would be grateful for that also
  8. paulg100

    paulg100 Active Member

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    "I really suck at this and I do not have alot of time to search this whole forum."

    Sounds like you need to hire a technical consultant for your new business.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  9. marc79

    marc79 Member

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    lol yeah me too, i was hoping to find step by step tutorial system but you have to go into different threads, and some of these things i have not seen anyone build here yet or build it in detail
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  10. Marco Dias

    Marco Dias Member

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    Hi

    I read this whole thread and I sympathize with your questions and what you trying to achieve.

    In the end of the day, from what I can read here, everyone is going... NO ... IT CAN'T BE DONE... DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME..

    Well.. the ones that defy the no can't do, are the ones that change the world..

    This is supposed to be a community that helps people with new ideas and exploits new avenues, but seems to me here that no one wants to try things.. they rather stick with what it was already done.. not sure how can something evolve if new things are not tried out.

    Anyway...

    My two cents to it are a lot simpler than what was proposed above.


    Get yourself a servo motor with a drive

    Get yourself an arduino

    Go to a arduino development site and enquire about making your servo motor move with the arduino

    Once you do that, come back here, start a new thread and ask for help to bridge the simtools code so it communicates to the servo drive via the arduino io

    Servo motors on it's most basic form can work very much like a stepper step, direction and speed signals + feedback signals
    You get to understand these signals and use them

    Do all this with a single motor first... then go to 3 motor configuration, and then get your platform built..

    This is the way I would do it anyway...


    I have truck loads of stepper motors and servo motors. Mostly by Parker and when I finish my hydraulic sim project I will give it a go myself at bridging simtools to my servo drives.. just for the sake of it.. even if it's unacceptable in the community that we attemp something new... I will do it anyway :)

    Hopefully I will learn enough on my hydraulic adventure to help me help you :)

    Never give up ... never give in...
  11. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    I think you have read this all wrong -- A couple of seconds of my time using search https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/test-simtools-stepmotor.8849/ https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/3dof-linear-acurator-with-steper-motor-12nm.6768/page-9 there is allot more, all you need to do is look ....
  12. Marco Dias

    Marco Dias Member

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    My comment was to the thread.. not the forum..
    I am sure there is a lot of productive information on the forum and on the web.. search magic works in google as well..

    If y;u have a few more than a couple seconds to actually read the thread in question, then you will see I am referring to the posts...

    Anyway, not trying to start an argument. Just gave my opinion bases on what I read.
  13. Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member

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    As far as I have read there has been plenty of help on this thread and legitimate reasons to not go down the route he had chosen.
    The simple fact is that there is virtually no support for stepper/servo motor driven systems. From what I have come across @speedy has the most powerful types of motors in use (AC servo motors). Pretty much all the work done on systems that don't use brushed DC motors and is all self made and self coded.

    Sure there is code out there to test a stepper motor but from personal experience there is still an absolute tonne of work to be done to get a proper acceleration profile written in code for the motor to lift a heavy load. Acceleration profiles that exist are done to run CNC machines that carry very little load and so do not work reliably for a motion simulator. They are also not designed to chase an ever changing target position.

    In terms of buying ready made control solutions there is the issue of linking it to simtools. What control inputs does the motor controller need? What interface software is available to meet those needs? There isn't a straight forward solution because no one in DIY has gone through this approach. Technically I lie, there is support for SCN actuators but that is a different kettle of fish.

    By far the biggest issue is when people new to electronics don't understand how and why these different systems work. Having that knowledge gives you an understanding of what barriers need to be overcome and ultimately done so by yourself.

    @Marco Dias post doesn't help anyone. It's not through a lack of trying that people have not already got stepper/servo solutions but that people have actually tried but ultimately failed, like myself with a stepper motor driven linear actuator. Yes my system worked (sort of) but ultimately is too slow and cannot lift the load reliably. For me it comes down to cost, I cannot afford the stepper motors and drivers needed for my design and so I won't even try. Servo motors and their drive systems are even more expensive. If you have a whole bunch of them then that is great, make the system and be the first to provide a DIY solution for the community. Just don't expect the OP to share his knowledge of servo systems when he is done, as he has stated.

    It frustrates me when people are given the best advice for their situation and then they get angry and assume that we are holding out on information or something, like we are greedy and don't want anyone to know how to use stepper/servo motors. If you don't know what you are doing and we haven't done it, how can we give you answers? Please tell me.

    Sometimes the right advice is not the advice we want to hear.

    Generally when people say IT CANT BE DONE.... DON'T EVEN TRY... it is actually the greatest advice that they can give because it is true. The OP stated that he doesn't have great skill when it comes to these systems so why waste his time and money on things that are way out of his depth?
    Most new-comers even struggle on a simple DC motor driven designs and you want him to purchase a servo and drive and wing it?

    I'm sure that in time, as things get cheaper and more abundant there will be a stepper/servo solution as they become more cost effective.
    We are just not at that stage yet, sorry.

    People will help where they can but ultimately to go on your journey you have to take the first steps yourself, no one will lift your feet for you.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Marco Dias

    Marco Dias Member

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    Thank you for your input

    You have your view over the subject and I have mine.. it's a bit like The Bible... there is always. Different angle To look at it... ;)


    It's great you tried and failed... before every success there is a succession of failures... lucky is the one that see past the failures and actually learn from them...

    Thank you
    M
  15. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    I can verify, stepper motors is a waste of time. They can never be used for proper motion cues as they offer only steps, not the necessary acceleration speed. You cannot use stepper motors for PID positioning with variable speed/acceleration or motion profiles that change on the fly.

    The only thing stepper motors are good is to use for accuracy in systems that require repeatability like CNC machines, 3D printers, manufacturing applications.

    Even large servomotor systems can be problematic if not used properly as well. If you use a AC servomotor for example as STEP/DIR mode, it will always move in steps with highest speed or what ever speed was preset to perform. Not good for motion cues at all! Unless its used for vibration (essentially what SCN5 was used for!).


    If you want to simulate accelerations in a game, you always need to control the SPEED of the motor to allow variable slow or fast accelerations/decelerations of the motor. Sorry but that is honest truth.
    • Informative Informative x 1