1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

6 DOF from scratch

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Pierre Lalancette, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I have a third actuator up and running. Because of the noise, if I test it with motion, it gets too close of the limits and the noise trigger the reverse motor. Thanks to my limit switches, it ended at the other end of the actuator. But if I keep it a square input signal, the actuator runs just fine, as the noise do not reach the limits. But the centre idle is quite jerky.

    IMG_2096.JPG

    I have prints others set of parts. One is just fine, the other add a skew right at the beginning. They went straight to recuperation. I printed them all back, but this time, one by one.

    IMG_2093.JPG IMG_2095.JPG

    The three other actuators are in production. I have stick all the remaining parts. I should not have to touch at epoxy glue for this rig anymore, and I did not make a mess! I'm a big boy now!

    IMG_2097.JPG

    Here a video of one of my actuator working. I almost destroyed my platform, but it worked, for a few seconds. I thought both actuator would work at the same time. So wrong. And you will see how I like to work casually in my pyj.

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  2. Flymen

    Flymen Flymen Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Balance:
    1,394Coins
    Ratings:
    +120 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    The others have the same noise ? May be this one ( cable ) pass near from the hight voltage/amps) . if not , put a filter ( capacitor) !
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  3. Flymen

    Flymen Flymen Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Balance:
    1,394Coins
    Ratings:
    +120 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Nice pyj and i like your slippers color !:thumbs:popcorn
  4. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    It passes right into the high power cables. A capacitor... Hummm. That make sens.
  5. Flymen

    Flymen Flymen Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Balance:
    1,394Coins
    Ratings:
    +120 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
  6. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Indeed, it looks like the exact same problem. Coaxial cables and capacitor. I was hoping to find another kind of solution as I didn't want to redo potentiometer soldering. But, I guess it one of those time who you have to stop being lazy and do what you have to do. Thanks for the info @Flymen.
  7. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Hello everyone.

    Like in @Vitalius thread, I had a problem of noise with my potentiometer's signal. The wires were getting long, they were passing through high voltage wires and my signal was picking up noise to the point it was triggering my limit setting if it got too close. So, like him, I got myself coaxial cables to shield my signal. But what is the better way to setup the wires? I tried 3 methods: No shield attached, shield to the earth, shield to the ground.

    The best way is the simplest, of course, but I had to spend hours just to try the others, just to know (I should have search the internet instead). The 2 others were acting like noise antenna. It was terrible.

    DSCF0004.jpg
    Only when I put every shields to the ground that I finally got a stable signal.

    DSCF0002.JPG

    I also add ferrites and a 47uf capacitor. I cannot say they had a real impact to the stability of the signal. (sorry for the out of focus picture)

    DSCF0003.JPG

    I also cut one of my finger. Nothing life threatening, but there was BLOOD! If you don't need your knife anymore, don't keep it in your hand. Put it on the stool.

    DSCF0001.JPG

    Now that I know how to stabilise my signal, I will be able to finish the electronic part of my actuator and keep on assembling them.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I have a new actuator rightly wired and tested.

    DSCF0002.JPG

    It is well fixed too.

    DSCF0006.JPG

    The other Gray one needs its potentiometer rewired the right way.

    DSCF0004.JPG

    So are the White ones, and there bases need to be drilled.

    DSCF0001.JPG

    The Orange ones are missing their electronics altogether, but they are assemble.

    DSCF0005.JPG

    The rig doesn't need the chair anymore to stand on its own.

    DSCF0003.JPG

    The coaxial cables seem to have stabilise the noise. Looking forward to see them all working together.
    • Like Like x 5
  9. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    If you look at the first post of this thread, you will see that I started it December 18th of 2016. That means almost 2 years ago. Its been a hell of a ride.

    Back then, I knew nothing (still do).

    Now, I think a picture sums it up.

    IMG_2099.JPG

    I still have to redo the potentiometer wiring on 2 of the actuators and fix their bases properly, but isn't it a beauty. Not working, but a beauty.

    My to do list is still quite enormous, but the feeling of a major milestone been passed upon fulls me with joy. And now, it's rock solid stable.

    Also, today, I ordered my 2 missing Arduinos and 2 others Sabertooths. One Sabertooth is back order. Let's hope it won't be too long.
    • Like Like x 5
  10. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,486
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,826Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,169 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Well done @Pierre Lalancette Its great to see it nearly finished, I can't believe it's been nearly 2 years since you first started !!! Where the he'll does time go
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    @SilentChill Time goes into a big void of a black hole and is never seen back again. Life is endlessly short.

    It's that time of the year! It's Christmas. Oh! Wait! It IS actually Christmas time!
    What could be inside?

    IMG_2100.JPG

    Oh! Oh! Oh! Stuff pretty expensive. Still missing one Sabertooth (expected in January) and the Arduino comes with a nice base now. Forgot to order the Arduino Power Supply. I know, they are powered by the USB, but I prefer full power supply.

    IMG_2101.JPG

    Could not use the base of the Arduino, as my prints did not take it into account. One is ready to be incorporated to the base.

    IMG_2103.JPG

    But during that time, I also rewired my two white actuators. They work and this is a video of those 2 working under the game Life For Speed (or is it Speed For Life?). I have no idea how they are configured. I was just happy to see them move. I wish I was out of the picture, but space is limited. Still in my pyj. The actuator worked fine with the game until my game froze up for a second and came back while I was hitting the wall. Follows the big actuator's moves, the limit break, and the reverse motor until it hits the limit switch.

    For those who are starting out and think limit switch are not a necessity, I pity you.



    I have a question now for the SMC3 and Arduino's Guru. To set the SMC3 script into the 2 others Arduino's, I have to set them to Port 4 and 5 (the first one is 3), and you do this via the configuration file that I don't have a clue where to find yet, right?
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  12. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    They say you learn from your errors. Man, did I learn lately when I connected the 2 grey actuators of my rig.
    - Don't connect your relays in series, your 12 volts wires will start to fume and you will destroy one of your relays.
    - Set your bault rate switches on your Sabertooth.
    - Set the USB port in your axis alignment (and use another computer to load the script into your Arduino if the first one refuse to do it).
    - Update your Simtools (but don't forget to have your license key before doing it of your will have to communicate with the support centre and wait for a response).

    Also, reading the simtools manual does help. It is preferred to do it before breaking things.

    I finally got my 2 other actuators to work, but I still have so many questions.

    On of my actuator is jerky as hell. I can't manage to make it run (almost) smoothly like the other actuator. It could be the power supply not having enough power, a bad setup or a faulty part.
    The two new actuator sometimes work, sometime don't. It is really strange. Power supply clipping? Hard to tell when everything is interconnected and the batteries provide continuous current.
    Same for the connection to the game, axis testing and force testing. They worked well when testing the game with only the heave force. When I added roll and pitch, they stopped in axis, forces, and the game. Anyone had the same problem?
    Could it be my laptop not being strong enough to run the rig?
  13. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,486
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,826Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,169 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Are you using SMC3 for sabertooths ? And have you set everything up in the SMC3 utility first and tested it ?
  14. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Yes I am. I set up my four actuator with the same values. They moved, they where following the signal properly. But they were not under load.
    Am I using the right values? I have no idea. It looks something like this:

    smc3.jpg

    I found that one of the motor had a Kp of 420 instead of 400 (corrected now), but beside that, they are all the same.
  15. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,486
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,826Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,169 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Change your FPID to 3 or 4

    And put your KS back to 1

    And take your dead zone off
  16. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Okay, I did a few things.

    First, I got rid of the crappy laptop and connected a real computer. Welcome crappy table and chair.

    IMG_2115.JPG

    Second, I change the setting in SMC3 tool utility. The improvement was HUGE! Thanks a lot @SilentChill .

    Also, I forgot to assign 3 and 4 to the axis and not 1 and 2 a second time. Now, Axis moves like I expect them to do.

    Still, when ever there was a big change of direction, my power supply would trip. I tried to reduce the maximum power to the motor by half, still, with a bit of challenge, they shut down. They don't have any load yet. I think I need to check what other are using now and redesign, once again.

    And I got my tracking number for my Pimax headset. It's about 150km from me. Should not be long. But my SteamVR refuse to work with my new gpu. Everything's just going so fine... :)
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    639
    Location:
    London
    Balance:
    5,030Coins
    Ratings:
    +121 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino
    Use a battery connected to the power supply, does it stop the shut down


    Do you have one power supply per motor ? Can you connect the power supplies together
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,629Coins
    Ratings:
    +686 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I have 2 deep charge 12v boat batteries. They are plugged in series for a 24V. I have 6 servers power supply. They are plugged in series 2 by 2 to make 24V, then they are all plugged in parallel with the batteries. The Sabertooths take there power from the batteries.

    The batteries do not prevent the power supplies to trip. Usually, the 3 psu that have been modify for their disconnected ground trip first, which leave only 3 working, providing 12V to the batteries. Then, at another surge, the last three shut down. Funny thing, the rig keeps on working on the batteries power alone. I have to shut everything down and start again, because the Arduinos get lost when I shut the power down.

    Maybe it has to do with power surge coming back to the psu. I use no power diode. Could it solve the problem?
  19. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,486
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,826Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,169 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I know someone has used diodes to stop the PSU's tripping but I can't find the build who has done it. Its here somewhere,

    I did try big capacitors mine but they never helped I ended up getting Chinese LED PSU's which don't trip out no matter what .
  20. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    639
    Location:
    London
    Balance:
    5,030Coins
    Ratings:
    +121 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino
    You can buy a bridge rectifier for cheap money, they are used to convert ac to dc, if you wire it up right you can use it as a powerful dc diode