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2DOF Frame mover - my compact simulator

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by mirkobastianini, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    Hey Mirko, that should work but a few caveats. The resistance in the wires is just the sum of all the resistances in series. Having a short segment that has slightly higher resistance won’t change your overall resistance that much. It’s important to make sure the added connections are tight for low resistance and it sounds like you are still using beefy wire for the short segments. Stating the obvious for completeness, if you use too small gauge of wire for the short segments, you can make heating elements or essentially fuses if you go extremely small. If you trimmed your motor leads like we talked about and saved that wire, that should be plenty good.

    When I was wiring my JRKs up, I did manage to get 10 AWG wire into the stock JRK connectors but the clamps were open so wide that one clamp screw stripped as I was tightening them up. I took off the connectors and soldered the wires directly into the large holes and used sleeve connectors to allow for disconnecting. Those taller connectors @noorbeast recommends would be another good way to go.
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  2. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Hi to all.

    I'm finally making tests with my simulator fully mounted, and now i'm working to setup my JRK. Hope to take a video this weekend.

    My left motor is perfectly configured with JRK Utility and with Simtools; i've already tested it with Live For Speed game, and seems good. Instead, with right motor i've a strange problem: I can use it with JRK utility, but with Simtools sometimes make strange noise (like if it's blocked) and sometimes it doesn't take my command. When this happen, I lost connection with JRK, and sometimes ID of them change name in JRK utility. Sometimes, when I make detect motor in JRK Utility, I receive from my right motor an error regarding duty cicle. I don't know if i've explained myself better, but in my mind this seems a problem of laptop/speed of connection. It's possible?

    Now i'm making test with a old pc, and tomorrow night I want to try with another very powerful. For now, anybody has a tip or suggestion for me? something regarding speed maybe?
    Or any other suggestion or tips?

    I've followed this guide of Eaorobbie:
    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/playseat-to-2-dofseat.5401/page-2#post-56352
    Thanks
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Just checking that you are not running the JRK utility and SimTools at the same time, you can't because they use the same API.

    Alternatively, try checking all wiring and grounding, clip on ferrite cores for all cables may also help.
  4. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Ah, I can't let open JRK Utility and Simtools at the same time, even if JRK are not controlling motor? Yesterday i've let both open, and maybe this can be the problem...

    Other parameter are right? like 20ms of latency, or 550 duty cycle? Can you post your setting of JRK Utility or/and Simtools?
    This night I will make another test with another laptop...and if I have another problem I will post screenshot of my parameters!


    Little spot...I'm really excited of my sim!
    434318367_157346.jpg
  5. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    I receive this error from my right motor..

    Immagine.png
  6. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    I've tried to change duty cycle to 400, and works perfectly! Anybody knows Why?

    Only sometimes I hear strange rumor like it's under load to change position, maybe it's too new...no?

    Maybe it's my old laptop that can't drive 2 JRK..Is this can be the problem? Tonight i'm very tired, so I can't try with my powerful pc :D
  7. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    nothing to do...i've change to 400 and seems better, but same problem...here in this video you can listen strange noise comes from my motor.


    What can be the problem? i've checked the motor, can rotate perfectly with my hand, and nothing is on his way that can disturb it...so I really don't know.

    The only thing i've noticed about levers is on this video:


    Maybe right motor is too much harded on the profile? Or i'm missing some JRK settings?
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Have you checked the motor and feedback connections, as that is what the error message indicates you need to do.

    The screenshot also shows the Pid Period is exceeded, so it would help if you post pictures of all of your settings.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    I have investigated my problem with a little bit methodological approach:

    1) I have disconnected my rod and my lever from motor, and I have tested motor without nothing attached on it; It can spin at 360° without any problems. So from this test I can suppose that JRK, connection and motor itself are fine (right?).
    2) I have re-connected my hall sensor and I've verified that it works well with JRK. In fact, I can see it moving well, if I move motor by hand (like left hall sensor). So from this test I can suppose that Hall sensor is working correctly (right?).
    3) I have inserted my lever into motor and....ZAC! Even if I test with feedback option or without, sometimes motor can't move, like something blocks it. Maybe my words are not very clear, but in this video you can see well the problem. You can see motor should rotate but it's blocked, and if I touch it, can spin correctly.


    So I think it's a mechanical problem...because my right lever is not free to play..right? I have investigated inside it and I've found a little bit of rust. What can I do to resolve my problem? maybe a little bit of svitol like in this photo? Or It can damage my motor?
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Mbi1w0kHL._SX355_.jpg

    The only thing I don't know if it's normal is a "tick" sound you can hear when motor spins, like a gear change position..I don't know if it's normal or it's a problem of PGSaw motor..
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    My first thought is that the lever interferes with the housing, or attaching it distorts something, but that seems unlikely as it would be pretty obvious. But to be sure do you have some close up photos of the lever and how it mounts?
  11. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    @mirkobastianini - Just to verify, one side works as you expect and one side does not, makes click noises, etc? If one side works properly that gives you known good parts to troubleshoot the other side.

    Can you measure the voltage on both power supply outputs with your voltmeter set to measure DC and then set to measure AC? You should get 12 volts or so on DC and basically 0 volts on AC.

    To know the Hall sensor is working properly, you can click on the graph in the JRK utility and look at the feedback line. It should track the magnet motion and track smoothly without jumps. You can mount up the Hall stuff on the output arm like you would normally operate, take the motor off the gearbox, and just move the output arm by hand to see if the feedback is working properly. That tests the sensor and the JRK feedback circuit. You can test just the hass sensor itself with a voltmeter. With the sensor powered, the "wiper" pin should go from near 0 volts to near 5 volts as you rotate the magnet and measure the wiper pin voltage. But if the JRK graph is working
    OK there is no need to test just the sensor itself.

    You mention rust. Where is the rust? What is svitol? What is "ZAC"?

    Your video is very dark. We can’t see how you have things set up and what it is doing without good quality photos and/or video.

    You should not get a tick sound unless there is some mechanical interference, a chipped or broken gear in the gearbox, or unless you have an electrical issue that is causing quick and periodic motor glitches. If the tick is tied to output arm position like for example you get a tick noise when the arm hits 1 o'clock, that sounds more like a gear issue on the output shaft or possible mechanical interference between your output arm and the motor housing or your frame. Again, with motors off the gearboxes, it’s easy to move the output arms through their ranges of motion and make sure nothing is interfering. Your connection to your seat may also be adding enough flex to cause things to hit that wouldn’t otherwise so be on the lookout for that too.
  12. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Thank you guys.

    I can confirm my hall sensor is working correctly (I can see it moving correctly on JRK graph). On the same way, I think my power supply and connection are working well...because my motor can be powered and moved correctly without lever inserted. The tick I hear is not correlated to a specific position, I can listen it always, but maybe can be a normal sound and it's not a problem.

    Rust is inside the hole of my motor (I suspect my lever produced it inside the hole).
    Svitol is a sort of lubricating oil here in Italy (I don't know what is the universal name..maybe "lubricating oil for house component")

    Zac is a simply exclamation :D

    In four/five hours I will make a detailed video of my testing and problems...I will send you in PM
  13. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Updates:

    first of all, many thanks to Zed and noorbeast, they help me a lot in PM to investigate my problem; finally I've found that the problem is inside pgsaw motor.
    photo_2017-10-08_22-36-33.jpg

    IMG-20171009-WA0003.jpeg
    I've tried to open it, and I've notice with tester that one spire is broken (it never goes to zero). Now pgsaw send me another motor, so i'm waiting..maybe two week.

    In this time i'm working to implement a bass shaker into my simulator, so I've ordered one Buttkicker mini LFE (which I should mount it under my seat, on center) and this amplifier from thomann (https://www.thomann.de/it/the_tamp_e400_b_stock.htm?ref=search_rslt_amplificatore_285088) . It can provide 200W for channel, so can be good for buttkicker. I've also ordered a crossover, to cutoff the high frequencies
  14. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    While i'm waiting for a new motor, i'm working to reduce angle of my rods. What do you think about it?
    photo_2017-10-15_19-09-12.jpg

    photo_2017-10-15_19-09-08.jpg
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    That looks much better for a compact design.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Today i've received buttkicker and amplifier...so i've worked on it.
    photo_2017-10-17_20-15-40.jpg photo_2017-10-17_20-15-41.jpg photo_2017-10-17_21-12-19.jpg photo_2017-10-17_21-12-24.jpg

    I think I need a crossover between output of amplifier and buttkicker, because I can listen sound through bass shaker.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. MarkusB

    MarkusB Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Doesn't your amplifier have a subwoofer output? I would have assumed this, since you bought it especially for the buttkicker.
  18. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    No.

    I've bought that amplifier because has 200w per channel and it's not too much expensive. I've already bought a crossover from amazon, and i'm waiting for it
  19. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Hi guys!

    I've received my new motor, so I'm starting to "simming" ! :)

    Nothing to much to say...let's talk using video. In this video I only explain (in Italian) for a friend and show my sim in little details, so if you are not interested you can skip it:



    I've configured JRK as eaorobbie explained (so with the same parameters), and this is my simtool setting:

    sim1.png
    sim2.png
    sim3.png

    I'm not fully happy with this setup, I need to refine it, so any suggestion is VERY appreciated.
    Mirko
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  20. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    ooopps, I've forgot to say...my profile level is 97%...only when I use a F1 car is 93%