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Playseat to 2-DofSeat

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Michael Hensen, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. bsft

    bsft

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    Oh sorry, I thought you were making a mock up to the get one done in steel of something...........
  2. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Building 3d printers is my other hobby.. very handy indeed..
    and one thing is for sure...

    A 3D printer is very patient and doesn't start moaning when I ask it to make me something ;-) Just need a 3D design file and let it do it's job, like for now it is working 8 hours for 2 levers (1 done, 1 in progress ) :)
    And like for the connector of the pot to the shaft, it is very handy, I can order them but by making them I have them sooner and it's easier to adjust any discrepancies..

    So I am happy I started with the 3d printer thing 5 years ago..
  3. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    I am .. but the one that is going to make them, I haven't got a welding device and experience in welding, is a couple of days away :( but I want to forward, so I am making a temporary solution) :)
  4. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    off topic , could you direct us to a good link , I have had a strong interest in building one but didn't like the 1000 dollar price tag.
    Thanks in advance.
  5. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    http://reprap.org/wiki/Kossel that is a good one!

    The biggest problem is the start as you need some printed parts.. luckily there is a group on google that you ask for them
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/deltabot/y7wvHSm7ASI[1-25-false] and I always can make you a set for cost price and shipping.. ( will be around $50 or less)

    And all the other parts are pretty common parts, like arduino, stepper nema 17, extrusion bars etc..
    All in all from scratch up to running I guess you can make it for under $750 if you source well, particular in china (aliexpress.com), and have some common items at hand....

    Parts list (BOM) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeEQQ6JExOVdENaenZTQU9RdnhvZHpxblhlczExMFE#gid=2
    Of course the total depends on what you have at hand already, like power supplies etc..




    The above is for a 'Delta' printer the 'KOSSEL MINI'..http://reprap.org/wiki/Kossel
    I prefer Delta over Cartesian..
    untitled.png
    Let me know if you have any questions..
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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  6. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Ok Lowered everything, printed me the levers.. And they hold for now :)
    And man what fun it is.. but now looking for a different power supply.. this one is way too noisy..

    what about this? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ED-Strip-light-AC-to-DC/613696_621538264.html
    15 V instead of 12V 1200Watt seems enough to me?!

    or better of with these http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ED-Strip-light-AC-to-DC/613696_621546637.html

    Not buying yet... orientating my options..
    or binding 2 40 amps cheap knockoffs? combining + and - to get to 80 amps single 12V out?!?!
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  7. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
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  8. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Ok .. Got it all up and running .. so here is a vid of my son riding the Playseat and IRacing..



    Feels good and good movements!! (at least I think :) have no reference beside other vids..
    not using the full PWM up to 200 I believe I've set it..

    BTW the white levers are 3D printer levers for the time being !!


    Next up is painting and decoration with diamond shape aluminum sheeting and ridges..
    Then dashboarding, arduino stuff and hopefully iracing maybey I'll need to write my own plugin, if I can get a proof of concept of one off the plugins running.. and oh yes.. give me an extra 12 hours a day... soo little time and some much fun things to do :)
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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  9. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Instead of deconstructing and painting my rig I have played with it a lot and still have loads of fun in it but I noticed lagging..

    As I run the arduino setup I have a feeling I am at the max of what arduino is capable of.. :-(

    So now I am thinking about the JRK's ..
    but is there some comparison between JRK direct USB and the Monster Moto through Arduino?

    E.g. is it stronger, less lagging, let's you feel more detail?! Pro's-Con's?!?!
    Just to make sure I am not overlooking something..
    And Yes I still like my setup but I have a gut feeling... 'this could be better somehow.. What am I missing?!?!'
    And I like the full platform motion so I am not intending to go to a seat mover.. :) (full rig for me :)
  10. bsft

    bsft

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    @Michael Hensen , differences between arduino and JRK
    Ard 8 bit controlller
    JRK 12 bit controller
    Ard home mad PID in motor control
    JRK industrial PID
    Ard, have to write your own code
    JRK , no code to write and easy to get going.
    Ard,need separate h-bridge.
    JRK built in h-bridge and 30 amps continuous all day with heat sink and cooling. @eaorobbie has seen spikes of 45 amps through the JRK no problem.


    From what I see the motors you are using will be run by JRKS just fine, maybe even better than the ard setup you have.
    Plenty of guys use the big worm gear motors and JRK with great success.
    really fine detail out of some motion, right to road vibration, cobble stones. It seem the arduino just cannot find that fine detail of motion like the JRK.
    And they still kick like angry mule.

    Big DC motors and JRK rival SCN motion cheaper and stonger and give wild motion better than dbox at full stick.
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    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2014
  11. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Bit the bullet and ordered me a pair of JRK 12v12..
    Bsft and Eaorobbie are convincing enough I guess :)

    Now I hope I'll feel the difference :-(
  12. bsft

    bsft

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    @eaorobbie . can you answer on actual feeling of difference between the two? I think you have run and ard and the jrks on your motors? Hows the difference?
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  13. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Any good docs on how to setup the JRK's for a 2dof setup. I have them at the desk but didn't have time to install them yet, (too busy racing, I guess :) )
    I tried to search the forums but haven't really found what I need..
    What are 'proven' settings etc..

    Thanks in advance!!
  14. bsft

    bsft

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    do you mean JRK utility settings? PID? Motor settings? etc?
  15. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Ok @Michael Hensen I know I have typed this up a couple of times now, must do a setup doc.

    You are using big worm gear units so the gnd is already isolated from the body.(wipers need fixing so they work)

    First need to install the drivers and the Jrk Utility program from the Pololu site.
    http://www.pololu.com/file/0J221/jrk-windows-121204.zip
    Once all loaded open the device manager and take note which are the command ports for each jrk.

    Then we need to make sure everything is wired correctly.
    jrk to wiper wireup.jpg
    Be careful not to wire the power supply backwards please check before switching on.
    Pots will need to be connect in as per you already had them, to give feedback on the lever position.
    Plugin in our usb ports but do not turn on the power to the Jrks.

    1. Start the jrk utility.
    2.Select the Jrk we wish to setup via the Connected pull downbox.

    Input Tab

    This is were we can manually drive the Jrks to check its max and min settings that we will set later in the Feedback Tab.

    1. Input Mode: Set to Serial.
    2.Serial Interface , set to Usb Dual Port.
    3. Uncheck Enable CRC if enabled.
    4. Check Never sleep , we don't want the Jrks to go to sleep before or in a race.
    5. Apply settings to device

    Now don't worry about the Manual set target we will come back to that.

    FeedBack Tab

    Here we set the min and max values that we want to use plus decide on how many samples are taken to convert the analog signal to a digital signal for the Jrk to compute its PID, the more samples the more accurate it will move. But the higher the sample rate the higher the PID period must be in order to read and calculate correctly.

    1. Reset to full range , to clear any previous settings.
    2.Apply settings to device.

    Now we can set our max and min setting but actually moving the levers to their locations we wont them to be , I personally measure from a base to the centre of the connection for the connection rod, For example on my unit, when the lever is in its middle position and my sim is level, its 80mm from the base to the centre. Now I want 80mm of movement so that's 40mm up and 40mm down. Therefore when I set max I move the lever to 120mm from base and when I set min I move the lever to 40mm above the base. As per drawing below.
    Lever for Jrk setup.jpg
    Setting Min and Max
    1.Click Learn
    2.Follow the prompt and set the lever to its max position.
    3.Press Ok
    4.Follow the prompt and set the lever to its min position.
    5.Pres OK
    6.Note the values now have been set in the Calibration area.
    7.Apply settings to the device.

    Ok now that the jrk knows where its max and min is we need to tell it how may Analog samples we want it to take per movement.

    1. Set Analog samples to 512 , this will allow a PID Period of 10-20ms just nice for sim use.
    2. If the power wire for the pot on the Jrks is connected to the AUX pin, this can be done for a safety net of if the pot breaks or does something stupid the Jrk will detect this and auto shutdown if error is latched in the error tab. This will not work for hall effect pots from what I have tested. Not a biggy hall effect can turn 360 without breaking.
    3. Apply settings to the device.

    PID Tab.

    Here is the only tricky part there is good information in the Jrk documentation on Pololu site, this is the method I like to use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler–Nichols_method.
    Read here on "Tuning the PID Constants. - http://www.pololu.com/docs/0J38/5

    Ok for the worm gears I have a base to start from thanks to @bsft as follows.
    1. Proportional Coefficient set to 0.39 in the decimal area not the fraction side.
    2. Integral Coefficient set to 0.
    3. Derivative Coefficient set to 0.5.
    4. PID period(ms) set to 20.
    5. Integral Limit set to 2000.
    6.Check Reset integral limit.......
    7. Feedback deadzone - if your scaled Feedback is flickering (bad or cheap pot) then set this to represent how much its flickering, handy for unstable pots or noisy lines, best to fix both issues and have it set to 0.
    8. Apply setting to device.

    Motor Tab

    Here we can set the power and amps we are going to use plus can do a direction test to make sure everything is correctly set and wired.

    1. Max duty cycle - Is the overall power we want to use. Mines sets to 550, but if quiet a load on them wind it up to 600.
    2. Max acceleration - Is how fast you want it to accel to the position, me I set it too 600(100%) let the Jrk work it out.
    3.Brake duration(ms) - is to apply a braking moment between movement , no more than the pid period, mines 0.
    4.Max current(A) - Maximum current the Jrk will absorb in order to move. I set to 0(no limit) as my power supply is more than the Jrks will draw together. If you find the psu tripping because of the current draw set this to equal or less than the output of the psu.
    5.Current calibration - Not sure never used it. (explained in Jrk doc)
    6. Max duty cycle while feedback is out of range - 600(100%) if out of range we want it back as fast as possible.
    7. When Motor is off - I set to coast. Some motors support this big worms don't.
    8. Apply settings to device.

    Ok now we need to double check that the power supply is correctly connected to the jrks , don't reverse the polarity (ever).
    If usb is connected and power is reversed you will blow up the Jrks and possibly the usb port on pc or hub.

    1. Turn on power to the Jrk.
    2. Press Detect Motor Direction.
    3. Follow prompt and bring lever to its middle(level seat) position and place a bit of resistance on it because if you don't the lever may kick all the way around and break your pot.
    4. Press ok , the lever will kick (hard) and then either return nothing (all good) or will prompt some thing has been inverted and you will need to apply settings to device.

    One jrk successfully setup, now we can test via the slider in the Input tab and then select the next jrk and set it up the same.
    Once both done ready to setup in SimTools.
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  16. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    Thanks earrobbie,

    Exactly what I am searching for..
    Glad I don't have to work this out myself. It envolves more steps then the dual moto boards :)

    You should put this in a doc, I tried searching but this instructions never came up :)
  17. bsft

    bsft

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    it might be more steps, but overall they are easier to set up. NO CODE TO WRITE!
  18. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Reading the Jrk documents most of this can be worked out easily, what I did in 2009 when I pioneered there use on sims back then no one thought the little buggers had enough grunt to run a sim or even if the software could talk to them.

    But do agree I need to do a tutorial on setting them up in Jrks software then using them in SimTools, just time.
    There might be a few more steps but as you will find, once set they just plug and play working correctly everytime.
  19. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    made the transition to jrk smoothly.. wow... I think I have more kick in the jrk !!
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  20. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thanks to @eaorobbie, I linked his post #35 in a FAQ for easier access for everyone! ;)
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