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12V DC Worm Drive Gearbox Info & Lesson learned

Discussion in 'Electronic and hardware generally' started by Deane, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    This is just an informative post relating to my own 2DOF DIY Budget Build https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/diy-2dof-budget-build.12377/#post-166285

    I did some research on the forum and the web for some suitable 12V DC motors for my build and I settled on some Motion Dynamics https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/1...ve-geared-motor-200w-21-256-rpm-7.5-45nm.html motors as Noorbeast had used motors similar if not the same in his build.

    Anyhow I have only been using these motors for a very limited time of actual sim use and one of the two motors gearboxes has developed a nasty grinding sound which sounds like it has lost or is wearing down a few teeth of the probable bronze spur gear that was probably caused by the motor going over centre in the early learning stages of setting them up in software and not a mechanical issue as such , although it did end up adding bracing to the main engine mounts as they were flexing under load.

    So still being under warranty by Australian consumer laws I contacted Motion Dynamics and requested their advice on what I should do thinking that they would probably replace the faulty gearbox under warranty.
    I went as far as sending them a short video of the problem gearbox in question, listen https://drive.google.com/open?id=1imFMmJ_iLPbkipIEcF4DdOofd5UEQj7t

    So to cut it short, basically they have told me that these gearboxes are not really suitable for my application because of the sudden shock loading on the steel on bronze gears under change of direction which happens continuously in our application of sims.
    So under their advice they have suggested a more heavier duty gearbox that will require some adaption to my current series of motors which are a series 040 like these 050 series https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-gearbox-to-suit-heavy-industrial-motors.html.
    They also suggest that an alternate solution might be the delrin gearbox version.
    Quote : "The cheaper motor we sell (the commercial one here https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html )
    It has a Delrin gearbox in it and its much more suitable because it doesn’t get hammered like the bronze, it flexes to take the load, so its better for it."
    They also carry a range of linear actuators which might be an alternate for some people and start with light Industrial https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/industrial-en/ up to a Heavy Industrial range https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/heavy-industrial-ip65/
    I hope that this info is useful for anyone looking for a supplier of suitable motors for their sim projects and it might save some one the hassle that I put myself into and the associated financial cost. :mad:
    Live and learn.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  4. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    I thought that it was appropriate posting in the specific 'Electronic and hardware generally' section so people can find the info easily.
    Also being relative to my build page I commented on there too.
    It's hardly any more confusing that many other threads that jump from place to place and off topic etc.
    I am only trying to save someone else from making the same mistake as I did which is what forums are all about, information.
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  5. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    How wide is that bronze gear? The first gear motors I used had one large bronze gear too and it was only 1/8" wide. The problem I had was the bronze would slowly deform from the stress causing large backlash. Eventually a tooth would break off. Since I only used 180 degrees on the large gear I rotated it 180 degrees and used the other side for a while until the other side broke a tooth off too. Mine were 90:1 gearboxes though so the teeth on mine would be smaller than your 50:1.
  6. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    I haven't had it apart yet to see how big or small the gear is but the gear contact area would not be much being a worm gear design.
    This is what the supplier said :-
    Your motor is an MCP series, so you would need to make an adapter if you wanted to run this gearbox type.

    We don’t have the 040’s on the website yet but they are about $130 for the gearbox.

    Though they work similarly they are much stronger than the MCP

    I don’t know why they chose these motors for sim use as they really aren’t a good idea. The cheaper motor we sell (the commercial one here https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html )

    It has a Delrin gearbox in it and its much more suitable because it doesn’t get hammered like the bronze, it flexes to take the load, so its better for it

    I myself thought the other way knowing how easy Delrin is to machine. It is tough but not something for the shock loads that we put them under constantly.
  7. T R Para

    T R Para i make stuff up Gold Contributor

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    Possibly you could look for scrapped electric wheelchair motors.
    When the electronics go out in them many are not worth repairing. We have these thrift stores in town that will sell a broken donated chair for as little as $25. I talked to one employee in the store and he said they get them in on occasion but sell very quickly. Ebay resellers just about live in these stores.
    Thats where I got my motors and they are built very well.
  8. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    The problem in general is the constant reversing of direction changes that just hammer the crap out of the softer bronze spur gear which under a normal use mode would not encounter
    these sudden shock loads. Also my design never took into consideration of the motor levers going over center which would be possible with a more common rear mounted push style rig
    opposed to my lift design which is only meant to go preferably under 180 degrees of rotation.
    That is why it is titled Lesson Learned, the hard way
  9. hannibal

    hannibal Active Member

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    thank you for this info. this is the kinda situation i dont want to get into
  10. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    I have to add to this comment that I started.
    I ordered a new 50:1 gearbox to replace the "faulty" one that I had.
    Well upon removing the bad gearbox and disassembling it, I found no broken teeth on either of the worm or main spur gear,
    and no noticeable wear to be see by the naked eye.
    They do have a certain amount of factory backlash and the new one has that too.
    Anyhow I have reassembled the new gearbox and put the motor back in place.
    I did drill another hole in the output shaft to add another lock bolt for the output lever to eliminate any movement.
    So it's back together and working as it should with one exception, and that is some noise coming from my CV joint which probably has a million km's of wear in it
    but it has a small amount of up and down play which is normal I think, but the steel frame and motors action would be amplifying the noise a bit.
    So that is just a minor annoyance and has affect on how it works.
    I have one small final problem to fix now and that is the motor to pot connectors which I have been using reinforced rubber fuel hose and hose clamps which can occasionally
    slip a small amount which is enough to make one side level not equal to the other at it's home position, so I am replacing the hoses with some flexible anti-backlash connectors
    which should remedy that little problem.

    BTW I still the Motion Dynamics Motors and Gearboxes are still a viable option for anyone looking for a suitable motor solution for their sim.

    ABC.jpg
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