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EntonoX 2DOF Seat mover

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by EntonoX, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My opinion is that you should do redo each axis force in turn, starting at 20%, here are some steps to help you out: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    300% total is not the way to go: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/axis-assignment-percentage-totals.120/
  2. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    Thanks for the link :thumbs i did remember it right then.
    i'll set the thing up again from scratch and see how it works then. Also try to make a video to show whats's going on.
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Wise move, it takes time, and first time round seems complicated, but is well worth it in the end.

    If you are making a video position it so the movement of the rig and screen action can bee seen at the same time, that will assist members in giving you fine tuning advice.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Im @ 150% on my AC profile. You Can easily run more than 100% but there's a few particular forces that can and will run you into "clipping" Its a Balancing act and a bit of a compromise in certain circumstances. But overall if you feel your feet being pulled from the pedals, Uh Ya you got too much motion.


    Why are you running a crazy high boundary filter ?
  5. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    Update

    First some pic's of how the rig is right now. Note that i know the steering / screen and desk is way to high (thus wrong) but at the moment the main purpose is to setup the axis and test the rig. :rolleyes: Also just a showcase of how the rig looks and the angle of the rods. (yes i know you like pictures :D)

    DSC_1127.jpg DSC_1123.jpg DSC_1124.jpg DSC_1128.jpg DSC_1125.jpg

    As you can see i changed the pot connection to a flexible setup. This works beautifull as there is no force being transmitted to the pot (with the hard coupling i could see the whole pot mount moving!) This was the fastest and cheapest way to realize and performs excellent.

    SimTool setting
    As my first axis settings were going the wrong way i restarted again. Followed the manual and begin with capturing min/max values at a track. I choose the 'Zandvoort' track together with the 'BMW GT2'. Drove some laps without crashing and captured the values. Results are:

    tuning center.png

    Next was testing each individual DOF (surge/sway/heave/pitch/roll) with 20% as a base value. After much testing i came up with the values below:

    game engine.png game engine2.png

    All axis are now 100% (no filters) with very good feedback. I think there could be some small changes, but overall it feels good.

    - Gear changes gives you a kick in the back
    - You can feel how the car lays on the track (banked / flat / etc)
    - Good roll in corners
    - Good acceleration and braking feeling
    - Motor are not getting hot, i estimate +/- 40 degrees


    As a reminder, the SMC3Utils settings;

    smc3 settings.png

    How it's now
    I feel the rig is defenitly moving the right way. When you test each individual DOF in game you actually understand whats happening. For example; when testing roll / pitch alone you actual feel how the car is positioned on track. You need to understand this correctly, the 'Zandvoort' track has a lot of really banked corners, the car is rolled a lot in these corners. Its easily to mix up the roll and sway forces so its a time consuming process. I actually driven with my own car on the 'Zandvoort' track a couple of years ago, and especially the first corner is very very banked :rolleyes: so i a could make a reasonable comparison.

    Video
    I made a video of a test lap on the zandvoort track, its just for the showing of the movement:



    You can hear the fan blowing inside the control box ;)

    Questions
    Ofcourse some questions;
    - When at speed, do you feel the rumble strips much? Right now its not prominent, could that be heave axis setting?
    - I do notice the seat flexes a lot, i checked but all is tightend.

    Like to know what you guys think of it! :cool:
  6. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Problem right off the bat, You want to have heave either reversed or Not, You cant run it with 1 axis reversed and the other not.

    Also you dont need to run the decimal points in the Tuning center, So your .94 in heave could easily be rounded off to 1, Sway to a 2 ect ect.

    Next dont be afraid to play with different min/max's on the tuning center for Surge, Say if you want a more sensitive "braking surge" you can run a Smaller Tuning #.

    Also Zandvoort isn't a Scanned track. Its one of 3 tracks in AC that isn't. Trento and the drift track are the other 2. So i dont suggest basing your Default setup on a Non Scanned track.
  7. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    @Nick Moxley zandvoort not scanned, really? oh my, all that setup work for *** :( haha always something new *sigh

    What track /car combination do you recommend for setup?

    For the heave; the whole seat has to move up and down for heave right? otherwise the seat rolls from left to right. As it configured right now the seat moves up and down for heave.

    EDIT: I unchecked the DIR box in heave, and tested the movement in SimTools. The same movement! Also on surge, sway, etc. the DIR checkbox seems no use?:confused:
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  8. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    The "Game Engine Output testing" bases it off your Default setting's. NOT the particular profile selected.

    Correct you want the seat to move up and down with heave, Having 1 box checked will cause it to roll as you thought....but in reality it wont feel like much as they are counter acting each other.

    Tracks that i spend a lot of time at is Spa, Mugello and Monza. I do most of my Overall Heave testing on Monza as it has IMO one of the best mesh's in game. I can pin point dips and bumps in the mesh with F1's that i have Confirmed are there when looking at the Physical mesh's in 3dsimEd.
  9. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    @Nick Moxley, again learned something tonight, thanks! ;)

    In default axis allocation the 'heave' dir boxes were unchecked and with testing they seemed to work ok. In AC axis allocation one box was indeed checked :rolleyes:. Thats why i thought it was working when in reality i was testing another allocation o_O

    Ready for another test tomorrow, thanks for the help :thumbs
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    No problem, I look forward to hearing what you think once you get it all tuned up.
  11. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    Update
    I just some time on the simulator and tuned the values more to what i feel is a good setting. The settings now are:

    scr1.png scr2.png

    @Nick Moxley It feels good, i tested on the Monza circuit with the above settings and i think i feel what you mean. On some parts of the track you feel the car bouncing for example at start finish and the part before you go into the tunnel. Every lap i get the same consistent feeling on the exact same place, so i assume settings such as heave must be good now. :)

    So far i like the seat mover i build, i didn't put a lot of laps on it but after an hour of sim racing the motors get hand warm (approx 40 degr.) Ofcourse its just a matter of more hours on the sim to see if they stand a long beating so time 'll tell. :rolleyes:

    Next project is building the steering support... o wait first need to fix my wheel centering issue :( after a long play my wheel goes off-center, contacted Fanatec about this so lets see what they come up with.
  12. PiaMan

    PiaMan Active Member

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    rig looks really clean and good.

    To eliminate the seat flex I screwed a solid rubber foot similar to the bottom feet of pro audio gear to the seat frame behind the seat. Solves the flexing issue without being completely rigid to the frame. I use the same feet under my rig too for kinetic isolation
  13. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear your on track again EntonoX I would suggest even trying lower on the heave Axis % and using the Editor's -50/+50 slider to accommodate different cars. Myself personally i swap between a 1 and a 2 on the heave Tuning center, 1 for GT/Street cars, and 2 for legit High dampened F1's.

    What cars were you testing with ?

    I also run 120mm HIGH flow Fans on my Seat motor's...even with Constant air flow on them, they do get warm when running an aggressive profile.

    Ah yes, I was going to touch on the Seat flex as well. My seat frame is Rather close to my seat itself, so a Thick 2" piece of closed cell Foam from my RC tires was Stuffed in between to take up the slack. It helps immensely as it seems these cheaper seats do have a decent amount of flex. Not sure if a Legit Sparco would do the same.
  14. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    To add foam between the frame and seat seems a good idea. 'll try that asap :)

    @Nick Moxley i have some fans lying around here, i'll add them on the motors to see the effect. I tested mainly at Monza with the BMW GT2 with stock settings. My heave setting is 1 / -1 and i like it so far :)

    @PiaMan Thanks, the original plan was to get that oem look for this simulator, i like a clean look :cool:
    • Like Like x 1
  15. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    Update time!
    I have been very busy last week, but today i finalized my steering and pedal support design. I changed the first design to something more easy to create, cheaper and (as i think) easier to get into the simulator. :)

    race sim v6.jpg race sim v6 - 2.jpg

    As you can see the whole front frame can slide towards or away from you. And the height of the steering support is also adjustable. This way i can do easy last minute adjusting while playing.

    I already made a design for the shift holder, but 'll develop this later when the front frame is finished.

    For the simulator; all is well. Played not so much unfortunately but that is also due the steering being way too heigh at my desk. I also received a replacement sensor for my Fanatec wheel, which i 'll install this week. Hope that the issue of going off centre will be solved :rolleyes:

    i'll keep you posted whenever the metal arrives, and building starts again :thumbs
  16. PiaMan

    PiaMan Active Member

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    I can tell you from experience not to do that wheel mount design. It will be unstable

    Much better to have two vertical bars and a u shape that fits in for height. In the center of the u put another piece to have the wheel adjust for distance. I used 1.5" for the outside tubes and 1.25" for the sliding pieces

    I did the same with your design and they use about the same metal. One is rock solid and the one like your proposed design is flexible and while useable not ideal
  17. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    @PiaMan Well let's see how this design works :) because front and back frame are separate i can always change or make a new frame. For now i stay with this design (metal already ordered :eek: ) and see how it works. The whole sim thing is a matter of trial and error :D But i appreciate your advice ;)
  18. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    Update

    @PiaMan You were right. made a quick setup and there is quite a bit of flex in this design. Can you post a picture of your steering wheel frame design?

    I replaced the optical sensor in my fanatec forza motorsport csr wheel but my problem persists :( still loosing center position. Anyone else got this problem?

    So two steps back in design and building. But we don't give up :cool:
  19. PiaMan

    PiaMan Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You can see it on my blog www.simformance.com

    There is a post with details of my rig. Using the 1.5/1.25" square steel everything is adjustable.
  20. EntonoX

    EntonoX Member

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    Update!

    I changed (yet again ;)) the design of the steering support frame. You can view the design below

    race sim 10.jpg race sim 11.jpg race sim 12.jpg

    I couldnt resist the temptation to rebuild the frame and started the rebuild last week right away. I forgot to take pictures during the building process but i promis i 'll make some pictures of the finished frame today ;)
    So the frame is actually finished and is really what i wanted for the frame to be. Really rigid and also enough space to place addinitional support items on the support bars. :thumbs

    So now is the time to really test it all together if only my Fanatec wheel would be good :mad: got a replacement sensor for the wheel but still off-centre after each turn.