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2dof and calculations

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by Alexander Reichl, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Alexander Reichl

    Alexander Reichl New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm from Germany and I build a Roto VR like gaming chair for the PS4. But during my research I came across xSimluator and this is my new project.

    I understand the technical part so far. But the mechanical part seems a bit complex for someone like me who does not understand pretty much about that side of the project.

    Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any sort of "Newbie FAQ", with answers to following questions:
    • How do I calculate the required power of the whiper motors depending on the weight they have to lift up?
    • What specs must the motors meet? I read something about 60:1 gearbox, revs, wattage etc.
      • I don't want to buy the wrong motors. I weigh about 130kg and I have to calculate the chair and construction weight which must be lifted by the motors.
    • Are there any low budget alternative to the SCN5/6 acutators?
    • As I'm building that for the PlayStation and especially VR I wonder if games like DriveClub or DirtRally are supported?
    Any other important for newbies I may have missed, like part lists, general building plans etc are welcome!

    Thank you for your support.

    Best
    Alex

    Attached Files:

  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    • How do I calculate the required power of the whiper motors depending on the weight they have to lift up?
    SimCalc can help you get your head around the basic physics involved: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...e-linear-speed-and-forces-of-your-design.270/
    • What specs must the motors meet? I read something about 60:1 gearbox, revs, wattage etc.
    See first point, what motors depends on the design and what is required to drive it.
    • I don't want to buy the wrong motors. I weigh about 130kg and I have to calculate the chair and construction weight which must be lifted by the motors.
    Decide on the design first, do a rough sketch and post it for members to comment on, once the design is finalised you can work out what motors are required.
    • Are there any low budget alternative to the SCN5/6 acutators?
    Commercial actuators with enough speed and power for motion simulation are not cheap, but you can build your own linear actuators: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/diy-linear-actuators.248/
    • As I'm building that for the PlayStation and especially VR I wonder if games like DriveClub or DirtRally are supported?
    @vthinsel has created a couple of UDP plugins for PS4, 2016 may also work with other Codemaster titles:

    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/project-cars-udp-plugin.159/

    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/f1-2016-udp-plugin.181/
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Alexander Reichl

    Alexander Reichl New Member

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    I read so much, but I missed the calculator. Thank you so much, as this is very worthy to me.
    I will do some plans based on other projects and post them, as soon, as I'm ready.

    Thank you so far for your support!
  4. Alexander Reichl

    Alexander Reichl New Member

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    Hi again,

    so I tried out this wonderful calculator, but I'm having problems understand the values.

    I switched to metric system. I provided a couple of values that I think will approximetly meet my later setup.

    My questions:

    CTC Lever Calculations
    • Max. Angle (Deg) of CTC lever
      • Does 45° meet the regular setting? Or what is a optimized value here?
    • Current Angle (Deg)
      • I do not understand this one. What means current position? What is the zero position meant to be? What I'm trying to say, that this is all depending on however my setup is going to be, right? Current position may be any position, or am I misunderstanding something?
    • Rest position
      • What is the rest position?
    • The output values:
      • Linear Speed - Is there a specific value that has to be met?
      • Output Force - What does this one say?
    Sim Geometry Calculations
    • Motor Position Z
      • This value is relative, right? It depends on what position the CTC lever is set to, right? Is that the Current Angle value from the previous page?
    • Motor Angle
      • That's the angle from the left or right outer line towards the Rod Mount? Correct?
    • Pitch and Roll Force
      • I'm not sure what to do with these values. Do these values tell me anything on the possible weight of the seat construction?
    Sorry for so many questions, but as I said I'm not familiar with the mechanical stuff.

    I hope anybody is willing to help me a bit further.

    Kind regards

    Attached Files:

  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    CTC Lever Calculations
    • Max. Angle (Deg) of CTC lever
      • How far the lever is allowed to move, keep in mind that over 38-40 degrees in either direction, 76-80 degrees total, the effective use of torque falls off dramatically. Think of it like pushing a door, if you are applying the force at 90 degrees to the door then you can move it with one finger, but if you apply the same fore to the door jam it would be hard to close as it is an inefficient angle.
    • Current Angle (Deg)
      • As per the insert picture when the seat is level the rods should meet the lever at around 90 degrees. So the angle of the lever at rest is 45 degrees for the pictured design but will vary depending on sim design. So on a compact frame design it could be just over 0.
    • Rest position
      • The rest position is when the seat is level and the rods meet the lever at 90 degrees.
    • The output values:
      • Linear Speed - the general consensus is that at least 150mm/s is needed for good motion, I would suggest 250mm/s or over for VR.
      • Output Force - The theoretical force in Newtons.
    Sim Geometry Calculations
    • Motor Position Z
      • This value is the height from the pivot point (at or near the seat base) to the where the rods mount, in the case of the shoulder mount design pictured to the seat back when at rest.
    • Motor Angle
      • As per the photo insert, it allows for the motors to be angle mounted to the frame, which can effect the geometry.
    • Pitch and Roll Force
      • The design angles determine the efficiency an hence what force applies in the pitch and roll axis.
  6. Alexander Reichl

    Alexander Reichl New Member

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    Thank you
    @noorbeast !

    I think I understand so far. But the one thing I'm not getting is how much the seat construction inclusive myself may weigh?
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    You would have to figure out the mass for yourself by including your weight, the seat, seat frame, plus any peripherals mounted to it.
  8. Alexander Reichl

    Alexander Reichl New Member

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    Yeah that is no problem to me, but how do I know if my setup/motors is/are strong enough for that weight?
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Disregarding mechanical loss, to know what Newtons it will take to move something it will be Mass (kg) x Acceleration (m/s) = F (N). So to move 100kg at 0.7 m/s needs 70 N. It takes 9.8N per kg to counteract gravity. Keep in mind there is significant mechanical loss in things like a wormdrive gearbox, depending on the ratio you may want to allow between 10% to 50% loss for worm gears and the greater the gear ratio the higher the % loss is: http://www.meadinfo.org/2008/11/gear-efficiency-spur-helical-bevel-worm.html
  10. Alexander Reichl

    Alexander Reichl New Member

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  11. Mengxi

    Mengxi New Member

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    To gain a better experience, it suggests that the linear speed should be between 150~700mm/s.

    15 degrees are enough for all the motion simulations with VF.

    These are according to my tutor. Just FYI.

    By the way, I wonder if you could share the how the calculation works, for getting the right value of torque, speed of motor.

    Thanks!