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Wheel and pedals geometry

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by Thread, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. Thread

    Thread Member

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    Is there a universal layout of wheel and pedals geometry available?
    Dimensions, and degrees, regarding the mounting of them.
    It is not clear to me whether the mounting is standardized among the leading brands.
  2. Bluestoneracing

    Bluestoneracing New Member

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    OK, so I don't know if there is, however, I can give advice on what you should have. At the end of the day if you are building your frame then you have the perfect oportunity to customise the wheel pedal configuration for you.

    Most race seat (unless it's an F1 style seat) will be 20°, in my race car I personally sit as low as possible (it often feels like I can hardly see over the bonnet (hood)!!) but it's great for low centre of gravity, but we're talking real race car here. You need to have good control of the wheel so place your wrist on the top of the wheel and your arm should be bent (well bent) so the wheel is pretty close to you and should be near the centre of your chest area - but the top of the rim can be quite high - you should race with the 10 to 2 position and keep your hands here at ALL times. - crossing over for tight corners.

    Pedals should not be a reach either, so make sure you can depress any pedal with some to spare and it feels comfortable. I have my real race car set up for me in this way and take lots of time to do this in test sessions before the season starts - if I'm comfortable and in control, then the rest comes naturally ;) Apart from when I crash and roll it :( trust me sims are much cheaper!!

    Hope this helps :)
  3. Thread

    Thread Member

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    Thanks, so seems like there is no standards for it, one may copy a good factory solution.
    I am just welding the rig, at the moment I think it will remain stage1, i use a controller.
    I have borrowed a G25, but not sure i will use it.

    What do you mean by
    Most race seat (unless it's an F1 style seat) will be 20°

    I have just set my seat about 20 degrees as well :)
    Though if installed in a car, it would be, could only be at zero degrees.
    It is a fixed back light one.
  4. Bluestoneracing

    Bluestoneracing New Member

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    The seat angle itself will be 20° in other words the standard recline on the seat. It's best to have the base parallel to the base (if you know what i mean :) ). So this will give you an idea of where you sit in relation to the wheel and pedals - I guess with movement the seat will be higher than normal so the pedals should be in line with as the seat would normally sit in the car (on the floor) I currently use the Fanatec CSR elite pedal set with the inversion set for the brake and clutch as this is how my actual race car is set up. I plan to design a new pedal set based on the Tilton 600 or 900 pedal set which hopefully will give more feel - brake is essential for feel. I also use the Fanatec CSR wheel but again plan to upgrade to the V2 wheel base - to be fair I can feel down force on a car through my rim on the sim - pretty cool how the mind fills in the blanks!!

    Single seaters use more like 30 or even 35° angle seats but the main thing to consider is having control over the steering wheel - so many people think that F1 drivers (due to the incline position) are laid back and away from the wheel - look at any race car (Nascar or whatever) and they seem to be on top of the wheel - you need to have good control of the steering wheel for quick movements (under steer or over steer, more likely over steer as even with my real race car which is front wheel drive, my race team set it up for over steer so I can power through the bends) it's good to be able to put a quick bit of reverse lock on the wheel :)

    I would place your seat on the floor then work out where you want the wheel and pedals and then build the frame around that :) When I build my new rig I will probably have both pedals and wheel adjustable (one of the main downside of rigs like the simxpereince, CXC etc I can see) so others can enjoy, of course if it#s only you then no point ;) With my real race car it's only set up for me of course ;)

    I must admit I could never use a controller - I was rubbish using one even though I felt slower by using a wheel (quick thumb movement for lock to lock!!) I use the sim for two reasons 1. as it's really cool good fun, and 2. as it keeps my reactions up/eye in for the racing season :)

    To be fair unless I spend about a million, I won't get close to the real thing, and even then it's nothing like it, but sim is damn good fun and well worth the effort of getting/using one ;)
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member

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    One thing you can do is to make your rig adjustable. I'm making a slide for the pedal box so that it can move forwards and backwards, doing the same thing for the steering table. That way I can adjust the rig until it feels good rather than hard mounting it and finding out that it does not feel good. I'm refraining from making the seat moveable because that will affect the center of gravity far more than moving pedals an inch or two. Just try to keep in mind that exacting figures on heights/lengths may not actually be what's best for how you like to drive. If you like how your daily driver feels than get a measuring tape out and start taking measurements. One thing you can measure is from where the back of your ass sits in the seat to a specific pedal. Use lengths of timber and a spirit level while the car is on level ground. That should give you a good starting point.

    One thing I found about pedals but have not yet tested is:
    (only applies if you have custom/adjustable pedals)

    Pedals are 50mm wide with 50mm spacing between them (length of pedals is subjective).
    Pedal angle is about 65 degrees from zero plane or 25 degrees past the 90 degree plane (leaning away from you).
    pedal height should be 203mm from heel point to the ball of foot point on pedal (so top of pedal is slightly higher for longer feet and goes low enough for shorter feet).
    Brake pedal should come in line with accelerator pedal when it is pressed down, making heel-toe easier (subjective)

    That is a baseline guide for pedal placement and the spacing is used on many standard road cars (apart from the brake lining up with the accelerator pedal on pressing).

    Hope some of this may help.
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  6. Thread

    Thread Member

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    Thanks, so the best is to copy a factory made one and make it adjustable.
    The above placement is usual on my very standard very old OPEL road cars, brake pedal sticking out more than accelerator, maybe a design error, not a provision for gas blip. :)
  7. Bluestoneracing

    Bluestoneracing New Member

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    I 100% agree with making the pedals and steering wheel adjustable as @Alexey says - much easier than getting the rig built and thinking 'damn' they're in the worng place!! I intend to make my new rig fully adjustable ;) Even a few mm (inches!) can make a big difference to comfort (said the actress to the bishop :p)
  8. bsft

    bsft

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    Heres what I did for the desk racer conversion, obviously seat moves and the rest stays still
    thanks to @eaorobbie and his suggestion of draw rails
    I made up a frame on a MDF base and screwed the wheel stand to it so it slides back and forth and has a single bolt to hold it into place. I drilled several holes for adjustment
    Wheel stand wheel part is height adjustable
    2014-07-11 13.41.48.jpg 2014-07-11 13.49.40.jpg 2014-07-11 14.38.46.jpg 2014-07-11 14.38.59.jpg 2014-07-17 14.48.03.jpg

    Attached Files:

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  9. Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member

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    It's actually a standard setup in quite a few open wheeler race cars (where I got the idea from), well it was about 10 years ago anyway. I have no idea what they prefer these days. I think in the end it will come down to personal comfort. I'll try it on mine where the gas pedal will protrude about 20mm out after the brake pedal is fully pressed in.