1. Hundreds of coffees, endless nights of debugging and coding, and countless feedback by our beta testers led to this new major release. SimTools 2.4 is probably the version with the most upgrades and improvements in a single release ever. Look at everything Dustin has included:
    SimTools 2.4 all features.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,469
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,609Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,139 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I had the same problem with NL2 it's absolutely horrible through OpenVR, tried it once and that was that.
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,143
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    99,999Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,337 / 42 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Sounds like the NL2 devs need to get that feedback.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. matthew loomis

    matthew loomis Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    rochester,ny
    Balance:
    517Coins
    Ratings:
    +82 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I never even thought of this when I started my rig. I only play in VR and still getting used to it so this would have been a huge issue. Some cars are unuseable just from moving your head too much already. I have a Vive so looks like this should work easy enough. Im getting sick now just thinking of what a motion sim would have done to me in vr without this.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Balance:
    2,616Coins
    Ratings:
    +176 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    I like the sound of the on platform camera gimbal method for my Rift. It saves the lost gpu of converting steamvr to oculus. Has anyone else tried it? Any good for flight sim where you don't have your head being thrown about so you'd be more aware of inappropriate head movement.
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,143
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    99,999Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,337 / 42 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    @SeatTime uses a powered gimbal, perhaps that is worthy of a separate thread.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    612
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,136Coins
    Ratings:
    +603 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    How to test the stabilization without a motion rig.

    I had this idea to try the stabilization without having a ready moving platform and I put it to the test. It worked great. I am so glad that I know I will be able to use this in games with my Vive and future rig.



    I encountered a few issues:
    -I had hard time to find were the option is. I don't even remember were to set it.
    -I was not able to reset the seat position.
    -I tried to save a base profile and a profile for motion stabilization. It did not work.

    I don't want to report those to the makers of the app yet as I did not have much time to test it. I'll do some more test before reporting anything. Still, with a lot a motions range, you can see that it stay stable as the enemy was always at my back and I could not reach them without turning on my chair. They were always at the back of the rig.

    So people, get to your chairs and set up your trackers to test that bad boy, it's worth it!
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,183
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    25,993Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Nice test :thumbs. Helps that you have a Vive.
  8. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    612
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,136Coins
    Ratings:
    +603 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Ok, I tested it again. And it is really nice.

    Like I said before, in the motion cancellation menu, there is a profile menu. I tried to set a 'base' profile and a 'stabilized' profile to see if I could switch between the two, but nothing happened when I did. The only options that seem to work was the 'motion cancellation' and the 'detect controller'. All the rest did not seem to do anything.

    The 'reset seat position' is an application option that I only get from Elite Dangerous, as far as I know. So, if an application does not set the front at the same place as you do, the only solution that I see to orient your rig with the head set would be to move the base until you put it in front. Or turn your rig. Let's just hope there is a 'reset seat position' in all simulation games.

    But the cancellation works and I love it for Elite Dangerous. It keeps the seat position synchronized with the game even if I adjust my seat to the controller position. Before it was a pain to always stay at the exact seat position while playing. Now, I don't have to worry about that, as it follow along all my chair adjustments. If ever it lost synchronization between the base and the headset, I could get a position slightly offset (really slightly) that I could fix with the reset seat position. But most of the time, it was right on the spot.
  9. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,183
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    25,993Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    All the VR games that I run have a 'Recenter VR HMD' or something similar as a key function - are we talking about the same thing?. I'll often do both the Oculus Home recenter (while in the game) as well as the game application recenter, just to be sure that everything is pointing in the right direction.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Balance:
    2,616Coins
    Ratings:
    +176 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Hi @SeatTime - what kind of gimbal do you use with your Rift sensor? I presume you had this already, rather than purchased for this purpose. I'm guessing a good powered one doesn't come cheap. If you think this is a good solution for Rift a dedicated thread on it could be useful.
  11. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,418Coins
    Ratings:
    +762 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    @Pierre Lalancette - AC lets you recenter in VR (simultaneous glance right and left), PCars, DCS, FlyInside/FSX/FSX-SE/X-Plane, and Aerofly do too. I am not aware of any cockpit sims that don't let you do that though I'd bet there are some. The ones worth their salt do, though.
  12. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,469
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,609Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,139 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Nice test and I love your red slippers :D :D
  13. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    612
    Occupation:
    3D Technical Director
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    5,136Coins
    Ratings:
    +603 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I was looking in the menu you get when holding the pause button on the controller. I don't always get the recenter option. There must be a key press to recenter that I am not aware about that would do just that in most of the game. I will look for it. I don't have much simulation game though. Actually, I think I only got one. :confused:

    Yes, they were done by my mother. :D
  14. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,183
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    25,993Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I purchased the gimbal before this cancellation system came out (last year) - mainly to fix the jumping tracking issues. Works for me, but @SilentChill did have some issues with it on his Rig and he purchased the same gimbal o_O. Here's a link to a gimbal that is the same as mine as the link to the one I purchased is dead. Like I said I purchased this when there was no other solution - I would see if this motion cancellation can be made to work as it is a better solution, before I would go down the same route as me, especially if like SilentChill it does not work like my setup.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aluminiu...ller-/251740752877?hash=item3a9ceb0bed&_uhb=1

    This may be better as I only use two motors

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aluminiu...dda9fe9&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=5&sd=251740752877
  15. tougemonster

    tougemonster Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Systems Integrator
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Balance:
    334Coins
    Ratings:
    +48 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I bought Touch controllers and got this going. It's working great, I'm so relieved. :D

    Before and After video below:




    As others have stated, I'm finding that any small vibrations or fast movements seem to get exaggerated a bit. I think a lot of this has to do with the mounting for the Touch controllers, and the Touch controllers themselves. The Rockband mount perhaps isn't the best, but the controllers themselves visibly vibrate with fast movements. I don't think they were mechanically designed with this in mind. But it appears the matzman666 is aware of this, so perhaps there will be a solution in the future.
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,143
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    99,999Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,337 / 42 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I do think controller mounts and tracking camera positions are something we need to experiment with @tougemonster, to minimise vibration related issues while maximising tracking fidelity.

    I am guessing but a high mount will likely amplify vibration related issues. Have you tried a 360 degree camera configuration with a much lower and firm controller mount?
    • Like Like x 1
  17. tougemonster

    tougemonster Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Systems Integrator
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Balance:
    334Coins
    Ratings:
    +48 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I agree, I think the closer the controller is to the roll centre, the less vibration issues there would be. But it's going to be hard to avoid entirely, as the whole rig will experience vibrations from all the weight getting thrown around.

    I was reluctant to mount the controller too far from the head position, as my understanding is that is where the developer intended it to be. For future when I start using my Vive and a tracking puck on this sim, it will be a 360 tracking arrangement, which will open up more possibilities for mounting.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,183
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    25,993Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 23 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Once I have finished my mount, I'm going to try fitting the touch near where my tracking camera currently sits. There are allot less vibrations there then on the top of my seat..Any sort of 'stable' motion cancellation has to be a good thing.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Balance:
    2,616Coins
    Ratings:
    +176 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Thanks for the links. That is some fairly fancy kit. Maybe it is best to run in SteamVR with my Rift and get the cancellation working. Currently SteamVR is the only way to get useful overlays in game too (with OVR Drop), so I'm finding more and more reasons to go steam. My new 1080Ti should deal with lost FPS anyway.
  20. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Balance:
    2,616Coins
    Ratings:
    +176 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Is this still working for everyone? I just came back to it today after some downtime on my platform and it crashes whenever I try to choose the controller or basically do anything. I'm on Oculus and there has just been a runtime update, also there've been some steam VR updates. On top of that I did a full reinstall of steam recently. Originally the openvr emulator had disappeared from my steamvr applications list so I ran the installer again which treated this as an upgrade as it saw the program was already in place, but as a side effect i got it back available in steamvr. I'd like to do a full uninstall and reinstall of the emulator but that fails as Windows says there is no uninstall file.

    Not sure if the emulator has messed up config or if it no longer works with latest steam updates. Any help appreciated.