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VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. Tags..(VR)

    Tags..(VR) Member

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    I have the CV1 ,rift-s and with the reverb G2 . its time to move away from oculus/facebook constrictive platform.
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Again, just to be clear, a game must be launched not just within Steam, but specifically with SteamVR option seleted, not the Oculus option. SteamVR will hand off to the Oculus software but should still allow the motion cancellation to function via SteamVR.
  3. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    @noorbeast : When you said the game must be launched with steam VR option selected could you tell me what the process you was thinking about ? which setup ? what check box ?
    I tried a lot of things, I launched the game inside steam VR wearing my headset without success also and one more time , I can’t explain why some games ( assetto corsa competizione , assetto corsa , pcars1 ) it works perfectly and other not with exactly the same method to launch the games !
    I don’t know where you select steam VR , I never seen this option .
    Look at my pics from launching option into steam .
    The first one you launch the game into steam like you are in a cinema . You watch a screen in front of you in the headset .
    The second one is for me the one used for launching the game into steam vr
    The third one is the one you surely launch without steam vr into oculus .

    The problem I ‘m facing is that the second and third option have exactly the same result !
    For the third it’s completely normal not the second and I don’t know why !
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I mean launch from Steam, not from within the HMD, like this, so that SteamVR has control:
    SteamVR Launch.jpg
  5. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Ok !
    Did you have already launched steamvr ?
    When I look at me , I first launch steamvr to apply motion cancelation feature and then I launch the game like you described .
    The difference is that I don’t have the message that the game is launched with steam VR .
    Look at my pics when doing the process I described.
    I don’t have the information with steam VR and steam be is already launched !

    Attached Files:

  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    SteamVR should launch when the game is started using the SteamVR option.
  7. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    And proceeding like this when you apply motion cancelation ?
  8. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    @noorbeast : I checked on my pc without launching before steam vr . And when I want to launch the game i don’t have the second option which says launch the game with steam VR . It’s just written launch the game in vr mode .
    And the game is launched via oculus software . And I noticed , the second and third option have the same result , game is launched via oculus .
    First question : why this second option launching with steam vr is not proposed on my steam application ?
    Second question : do you think it could come from revive application ?
    Maybe I have to uninstall revive because Dschadu motion feature works ?
    Or any other idea ?
    Thanks !
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  9. Tags..(VR)

    Tags..(VR) Member

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    Noorbeast i find it interesting that you still drive in the sim PC1 and not PC2? in your view do you think PC1 is better then PC2? i havent driving in PC1 in a long time, maybe i need to go back and get a refreshing of what it was like.
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I use PC2, primarily for Mt Panorama as I am an Aussie, though I do also have a mod of it for Asseto Corsa, which is still my go to race program.
  11. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Benmax, most of this will be things as I remember them, and guesswork so please understand anything I say could be wrong!

    An oculus vr set can not be used at all without the Oculus software compositing the image. SteamVR/OpenVR can not truly drive an Oculus headset directly. So if you have Oculus there are actually three different ways a game can "work" with it.

    THIS is the reason that the problems are the same with OVRMC as they were with OVRIE. The problems you are seeing do NOT come from SteamVR! They are caused 100% by Oculus! Unless you can convince Oculus to go opensource, or they accidentally fix it themselves this most likely can not be fixed because Oculus VR will not allow anyone to do it. The only known solution is to not use an Oculus VR set! Many of us have switched for this reason, including me.

    1: An Oculus Exclusive game. There have been VR games sold on and launched from Steam that are NOT compatible with SteamVR. Dirt Rally (v.1) was such a game.

    2: A game with direct Oculus and also SteamVR support built in. This is the type of game that asks you if you want to launch with Oculus or SteamVR. If you choose Oculus option, it is exactly like #1 so SteamVR is not involved at all even though you launched from Steam.

    3: A game that is SteamVR exclusive, but works with Oculus headsets through SteamVR Oculus compatibility. If you were given the option of Oculus or SteamVR and you chose SteamVR then that works the same as this.

    No matter which way it works, Oculus software is still what is ultimately running the actual VR headset.

    If it is direct Oculus (first two options) then there is no way possible to do motion compensation because Oculus does not want to allow it.

    If the game is direct through Oculus, you can use Revive to force it to go through SteamVR and it becomes the same as options two and three, though Revive can add it's own bugs and issues as well to make things even more confusing.

    If it is passing through SteamVR, we can inject motion compensation into the SteamVR component, but it ultimately still has to go through Oculus VR as well which does not cooperate and "detaches" the image from the HMD as a result creating black areas that can be anywhere from small to huge depending on the motion of the simulator.

    So the first thing is to make sure that the game is running through SteamVR, which in some cases will require ReVive unless this has changed since the last time I tried using Oculus probably two years ago. This is the most likely where your problem of some games "don't work at all" comes from.

    I hope that helps.

    Last, I have a question for you @benmax . Can you confirm for me that if you just run your Oculus as normal with no attempt at motion compensation, it is worse than if you use motion compensation with your Oculus?

    Can you try it both ways, watch carefully, and describe the difference? I am trying to understand exactly what portion of motion compensation Oculus does not allow to happen. I think that just knowing "it's better" or "it's not really better" pretty much tells me what I want to know, but more details would be very welcome. I may make a graphic to explain this problem, but it is very difficult to explain without going on for a long time. A video would be better but finding time to create one right now would be nearly impossible because my life is currently even greater chaos than usual!
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  12. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    This is my best effort to somewhat succinctly analyze and explain what I believe is happening with OculusVR and motion compensation. The problem is the same with OVRMC and with the previous solution OVRIE because the problem is being caused by OculusVR compositor, NOT by SteamVR.


    3 "worlds" exist when using VR

    1: The real world
    2: The VR world (pause menu etc.)
    3: The Game world (in sims this is the car or aircraft, not the world outside it)

    Motion compensation detaches the VR world and Game World from the Real World, and instead attaches them to the motion platform, solving our problems.

    OculusVR Compositor prevents Motion Compensation software from attaching the VR World to the motion platform.

    Unfortunately, the location of the window your computer draws for you to look through into the game world is attached to the VR world instead of to the Game World.

    The result is that when you use motion compensation with Oculus, the car will be attached to the motion simulator as desired when you can see it through the window, but the window is "stuck" attached to the real world so it will not always be in front of your VR headset as it should be.

    When the "window" into the game world is not properly placed correctly in front of you, you will see some of the blank black VR World around you where the VR world isn't being drawn because drawing it all would use far too much computer processing power and "normally" you would never see any of it anyway.

    That's a lot of worlds (and words)! I hope this makes sense to someone....
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  13. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    @Trip Rodriguez : thanks for your answers . Will try to make what you ask for !
    Before One more question :
    - what headset would you like advice « most friendly « compatible for motion compensation ? Including quality of view ( the last but not the least ) ?
    Thanks
  14. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Overall Valve Index is by far my strongest recommendation at this time given the need for motion compensation.

    IMO it is the best overall HMD available for the following reasons:

    Best positional tracking
    Extreme comfort- Most feel it's the best of any VR HMD
    Best audio in any VR setup
    Reliable and very well supported by games
    One of the best hand controllers (maybe THE best but Oculus CV1 Touch has them beat in some ways)
    Display quality a bit better than all but a few HMDs
    FOV a little better than ANY mainsteam HMD (Pimax is not mainstream)
    120 and 144hz modes are an amazing improvement to immersion I didn't expect

    HOWEVER don't buy until you read the following:

    Reverb G2 is coming out in two months or so. With the Reverb you are likely to have trouble with motion compensation, and there is no guarantee that you will be able to get it to work decent. Some here have had success with the current gen WMR VR headsets, and others have become very frustrated. The only advantages of Reverb G2 are resolution and cost. The resolution is the best clarity you can get in the consumer market and it is a HUGE benefit for sims, especially flight sims. It makes reading gauges and seeing distant scenery drastically improved and that adds a surprising amount to immersion as well. On the negative side it's got WMR type head and hand tracking which are inferior to Oculus and especially Lighthouse by far. It's got a smallish FOV. I felt (G1) was smaller than Rift, but the tests on youtube say it's a tiny bit bigger than Rift FOV. Certainly quite a bit smaller than Index by any account. Definitely do not buy a Reverb G1 at this point! The G2 is almost here and it is a DRASTIC improvement in every way at the exact same price!

    Pimax 8K+ and Pimax 8K X are looking really good with 8K+ resolution clarity similar to Index and 8K X maybe nearly as good visual clarity as Reverb. They also have the largest FOV of any consumer VR setup by far. They use Lighthouse tracking, the best there is which pretty much guarantees perfect motion compensation functionality. On the negative side, the Pimax headsets are even more expensive than Index, and you are much more likely to have software and perhaps hardware problems with them. Quality is unquestionably poorer, and the company has been subject to a lot of criticism for quality control and customer relations, though I personally get the impression they really are making a strong effort to please customers and just having difficulty with it between language barriers and being a kinda small fish in a big pond. I myself am excitedly awaiting delivery of an 8K X, and my fingers are crossed that I don't wind up regretting rolling the dice on Pimax. I sold my Index for a profit around January (due to supply shortage) to pay for the Pimax, and man do I miss it!

    Sorry to dump so much info, and this was me trying to keep it short! If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask, or to send me a private message. I would also be happy to discuss this with voice on Discord if you wish. Just let me know.
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  15. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you so much for clarification and for proposition !
    Not so easy for me in English to discuss but thanks if I need I will call you
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  16. JMB3D

    JMB3D Member

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    JMB mini review Pimax 8KX
    A few niggles I found with this HMD,

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  17. JMB3D

    JMB3D Member

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    Motion Compensation at its best. (Matazzman Version)
    JMB - Nurburgring Nordschleife Porsche 919 Hybrid Lap 5.54.98
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  18. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro New Member

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    I'd encourage you to try AMS2 (Ultima car + Bathurst)... All the glory of PC for VR but high-end FFB :)
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  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Added to my ToDo list :thumbs
  20. Tags..(VR)

    Tags..(VR) Member

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    lol. on my to do list he says. hey.. are we excited about the new G2 coming out from hp? im ready to give the CV1 a rest.