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VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    What version is the Vive hardware you're speaking of: 1.0 or 2.0?
  2. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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  3. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Ignore the first version of this post you may have seen in email, I was mistakenly talking about the wrong prior post of mine. The following is on the correct topic:

    This comment was based on things I remember as having been said on this forum by a couple of the most knowledgeable technical type folks. I have no personal opinion due to no knowledge in the area, and I could be remembering incorrectly what was said but I think not.

    I'd say the problem most likely is that with the vast majority of our rigs the sim does not send data back to the computer telling it where it actually is, the computer only knows where the platform has been instructed to be. Depending on the speed of the rig, where it "is" and where the computer thinks it is could vary quite a bit.

    I wonder if it would be possible with software/firmware to have the AMC1280 reporting actuator positions back to the computer in real time with very little latency.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  4. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    I completely agree with that! My idea was that based on the actuators' power and the overall weight of the platforms's moving parts you could calculate the latency or offset of the base. But in this respect I'm probably wrong.
    In the end a purely optical system, some tiny LEDs tracked by a simple cam (like TrackIR?) could be the best, as such a setup most certainly wouldn't be disturbed by high frequencies?
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Keep in mind that one of the challenges with optical tracking and LEDs is that they tend to look like a big blog to a tracking camera when moved at high frequency.
  6. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Excellent point. I had a TrackIR5 before DK1 and had the same basic idea but you may be right. It never seemed to have a problem with quick head movements but some inaccuracy would be much less noticeable on a monitor while you are moving and it is stationary.

    The lighthouse system though shouldn't have this problem since it is laser based. I'm sure the cameras that watch the lasers have to be fast as well or the positional tracking wouldn't be very good and we all know Lighthouse tracking is superb.

    So the question is, is it possible to write a SteamVR plugin to tell a Vive Tracker or Vive Wand to ignore the IMU and track purely via the lighthouses. If it's possible, what happens? To be a viable solution it would have to track rotations as well as translations.

    I would love to see this attempted (FOR SCIENCE!), and wish I had the skills to do this kind of thing. My most highly developed skill is screwing up! =P
  7. VR_Reality

    VR_Reality New Member

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    I need to send in both index controllers for an RMA, is there anyway I can select my vive tracker and set it to motion compensation without having a tracked controller?
    I have tried using an xbox controller, but it seems like none of the menus ofare selectable with it. Thanks :)
  8. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi everyone! I'm about to add motion to my Sim-Lab P1 rig and I have SteamVR 2.0 Base Stations - 3 of them around the corners of my play area.
    I am currently using the Valve Index as well.
    Will there be issues in iRacing, RaceRoom, AC, etc that I should start worrying about using Motion Cancellation apps of some kind?

    Any help would be appreciated as I am a complete noob when it comes to this

    I know someone with an SFX-100 kit and he uses a Rift S and says it's fine for him so far, but he doesnt know much and couldn't tell if something was wrong if it hit him in the face. He's not tech-savvy unfortunately and I can't take his word for it
  9. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    That depends on how much angle and translation your rig will produce. What are your expected specs for total travel?

    Look at it this way. If you stay completely still and rigid in the seat, how far will your head move from the motion of the sim? However far your head moves in each direction, it will move around inside the car. With my sim I can even wind up with my face going through the glass and outside the car. If I accelerate hard I can wind up with the headrest obscuring my vision! Hit a really good bump and my head might pass through the roof like it's sticking up through a sunroof, etc.

    If your motions aren't big enough to cause more than a few inches of head movement you might be ok. Keep in mind, even if you have only 2DOF motion if your hinge point is low your head will move around as the sim tilts. Say you have a universal joint under you, and the hinge point is 750mm below your eyes... a ten degree rotation of the sim will move your eyes about 130mm from center left, right, forward, and back.

    The other thing to consider is angle. When you accelerate hard without motion compensation you might be aware of your feet moving up. This bothers some people more than others. I was very aware of where my feet were, I felt like they were up in the dash when accelerating and down in the ground beneath the car during heavy braking.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  10. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Good Point - Im planning to go with the Motion Platform - 4dof and TL from PT-Actuator
    150mm up/down and the traction loss movement.
    AMC-AASD15A
  11. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Well, I'm not super familiar with 4DOF rigs, but if I'm not mistaken that means you'll have 75mm up and 75mm down heave. Depending on your dimensions and how high your center of rotations are you may be able to get away without compensation.

    Having to use compensation means an additional bit of software that can cause issues, and at this juncture also means you probably won't be able to use buttkickers or similar. It can also cause some cockpit shake, so if you if you find don't need it you won't want to use it. That is, unless we manage to come up with a new solution that solves all the negatives. If there are no significant drawbacks, every motion sim except a chair shaker can benefit from motion compensation. Please take a look here and see if you might join the ranks of motion sim enthusiasts attempting to get a developer to work on a better compensation solution: https://github.com/rosskevin/OpenVR-MotionCompensation/issues/1#issuecomment-513964856 We need as many contributors as we can get to help get this done.
  12. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    I hope not. How much heave does the SFX-100 4-dof system give? I heard it's 100mm if I'm correct. The only part that makes me worry is the motion platform for the Traction Loss sway left and right. I usually dont like too much jerky movements anyway. Smooth, small, and subtle movements would be the best thing for me.
    I have 1 buttkicker currently that i've been using and I dont blast the volume on it because it distracts me if it's too high.
    Also, I'll be adding a pedal vibration kit over the weekend, so if buttkicker and/or vibration motors wont work with it, I would rather not use it.

    Thanks for the link above, I'll check it out as well.
  13. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator Gold Contributor

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    Very interesting tip! Unfortunately I have to say that their site with so many solutions for so many individual use cases overstrained my capacity.
    Did you make out a hardware/solution that could go as an alternative to the Vive ecosystem? And got an idea of what the price tag of such hardware would be?

    BTW, in the impressum on the bottom I found one thing worth mentioning: "© 2019 NaturalPoint, Inc. DBA OptiTrack". I had least 3 TrackIRs up to TrackIR5, but never was a fan of it. In my experience even the DK1's tracking capabilities excelled them by a number. But the industry aimed Optitrack has probably shifted up a gear...
  14. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    I find that the Index with a mark 2 Tracker works very well.
    I am using a Genie Clip left over from my cinema build, which may or may not help vibrations. 64309 64310

    Attached Files:

  15. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Sorry
    Sorry for the noob question but what do you mean by Mark 2 tracker? Isnt that a vive tracker?
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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  17. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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  18. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    I found it following the link to one of the XTAL tracking options. They have variants with different FPS frequencies and cover areas, afaik even the cheapest one surpasses Vive or Oculus specs in this regard, however their "cheapest" refers to about $4000 just for hardware.
  19. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

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    Looks like the latest WMR or SteamVR beta has broken the motion cancellation, as soon as I enable the cancellation my Reverb goes black nothing onscreen at all.

    Hey ho was gonna happen some day hopefully the fork can get made soon. I'll just have to turn the range down so I stay in my seat
  20. ChilliPepper

    ChilliPepper New Member

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    Those using Pimax. Latest Pitool has motion compensation. Anyone tested yet? It seem there are no instructions how to get it work. Those got it working mind sharing with please?