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VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    IMO:

    1. Nether one of current "1,5 gen" helmets is really perfect. Vive Pro left me totally unimpressed with image quality, also controllers without thumbsticks are still as useless as they ever was. Index is clearly better in all regards, but since I`m using glasses I cant really benefit from slightly better FOV, so decided to stick with Pimax 5K+. Latter have vastly superior FOV to everything else on the economy market (I never tried StarVR or XTAL), and if you want better clarity, check HP Reverb. I found it very interesting for cockpit gaming, albeit personally prefer wider picture over more sharp one.
    2. I never used it for motion compensation, but out of curiosity checked if VRIE works with it and it seems to have no issues.
    3. Pitool doesn't need to be bypassed, just don`t run it if you don't need to. Pimax is OpenVR compatible and runs fine with just SteamVR.

    Also, why do you need this plugin with Oculus? I had no problems using Rift with rig-mounted camera and it still works well that way. I`ll trade few tracking inconsistencies it does have against still unsolved big problem with shakers, which current compensation method entails. Actually, if there where some way to get Pimax display working with Oculus tracking system and Touch controllers, I would want nothing more.
  2. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Might it be appropriate to have a channel for this added to the xsimulator.net Discord?

    As for your questions,

    I think the consensus is that the Index trumps the Vive Pro. I've spoken with several people who actually upgraded from the Pro to the Index and though they said it's not a huge improvement they were happy with the switch.

    I have not experienced any issues with using the Index with the current compensation plugin.

    I'm the wrong guy to ask about the Pimax situation, but in case nobody else answers I believe that some if not all Pimax users are having major problems with the current motion compensation solution.
  3. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I had to ditch my Oculus CV1 completely because it wouldn't play nice with this plugin. If you have a large displacement and angle simulator the solution that you are describing is very highly inadequate unfortunately. =(
  4. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    Pimax uses same tracking as Index or Vive, so situation with motion compensation is exactly the same. In my case it works perfectly without buttkicker on and like crap with enabled vibe.
  5. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Good to hear, thanks for posting. I swear at least one person in this thread said that they couldn't get compensation working properly with their Pimax but I could have totally imagined it, wouldn't surprise me LOL.
  6. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    There are posts from owners of every possible system having hard time with MC. And Pimax family includes Pimax 4K, which doesnt have 6DOF tracking at all and naturally does not work with motion compensation. Althrough it hardly needs it for exact same reason )
  7. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    Valve Index with a second gen tracker works really well for me, but I don't have any transducers in action.
  8. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    In this context I figured it was obvious that Pimax 4K wouldn't be included since it has only IMU tracking. I had a 4K for a few days then returned it, so I'm familiar.

    Using Index and a 1st gen Vive Wand is working perfectly for me as long as I don't use the shakers. 1st gen Vive trackers pretty much the same thing here, but aren't quite as good as the wand.

    If anyone is still following my updates I've found that I can either:
    - have the wand mounted with the Oculus Touch Guitar Hero mount to the harness bezel on the seat and can use the shakers
    - mount the wand good and tight to the top of the seat and not have issues with the cockpit shaking from ground bumps (racing would require this method IMO)

    But I can't have both at the same time. So, I've gone back to the wand zip tied to the top of the seat and the shakers stay off for now. =(
  9. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Awesome that it worked! I've found a number of games in VR run windowed even if you select fullscreen and focus on the game window being lost is sometimes an issue.

    I've been spending all my sim time testing FlyPT updates and helping get it debugged. This has meant that each night I've got some time I do the same thing over again with the new version LOL, so I haven't got to doing anything else yet beside testing and tuning the one airplane over and over. Project Cars 2 is next on my list, but I don't know if I'll get to it this coming week or not.
  10. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    In my case after long search for the sweet spot I found pretty unlikely place for 2.0 tracker - bolted really firm and tight on the base frame close to buttkicker itself. It seems that long metal armature does in fact increase vibe amplitude and after-wobble. With this setup, small shaking is quite severe during cannonfire (which in case of WWII planes I currently play is actually realistic), but doesnt entail any trashing around or tracking issues. Since I usually lean to crosshair at this time, I dont even notice it. Also, I got totally calm picture with engine rumble, while it still feels well enough.

    Tracker positioning as close to head as possible seems totally unnecessary in my case, but that may be actual for particular 2dof platform with limited angles I use.

    50848051-E320-47A9-9EDF-3FD62F3AB73A.jpeg
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  11. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Interesting. How high is your center of rotation for your 2DOF and how big are your angles? The higher your center of rotation, the less translational error there would be in tracking your head during 2DOF motion. If you had fairly large angles and the hinge was under your seat you would find that in pitch motions you go forward and back in the cockpit quite a bit, and in roll motions your head would move left and right, in a fighter almost certainly through the glass canopy.

    With my sim if I put the tracker that low my head will go outside the cockpit in pretty much every direction! =P

    Also interesting, with my equipment (lighthouse 1.0) the problem isn't just vibration of the camera, it's like SteamVR decides the tracking data is corrupt. If I'm looking at the controller in SteamVR home with the shakers running the controller/tracker will wobble around a bit and then just disappear. It might stay gone only for seconds or for minutes.
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    There are speed limitation assumptions built into StreamVR, and Valve has already had to adjust those because the wrist movement of some really good Beat Saber players (3600 degrees/sec!) far exceeded the original assumptions: https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-updated-steamvr-tracking-because-beat-saber-players-were-too-fast/

    In other words high speed movement can confuse SteamVR if it exceeds those built in assumption of what is possible, and those assumptions are based on anticipate highest human movement, not what would be possible on a motion rig with high powered transducers.
  13. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    With 15 degrees of angle and about 1 meter from hinge to head (half that to tracker) I dont bump into canopy even without compensation.

    I did experience tracking loss as you describe, when tracker (or wand, have no difference in their performance) was far from vibe source and fixed with gel pack. Seems that amplitude plays greater role in this trouble, then actual force, but that is just a hinch. No such problems with latest setup on pic.
  14. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    Btw SteamVR developers themselves ran into similar problem, as we have, when they made “PP Gun” controller with recoil. It did have vibe-protection mount for tracker, but still when firing tended to be less accurate then it should have been in real. Never fixed that really and maybe was one of the reasons it got dropped. Recoil was actually weak, no comparison with 1kWt buttkicker naturally.
  15. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I still feel like purely optical tracking should be tried for motion compensation. No IMU should mean no vibration problem.
  16. rsbell

    rsbell Member

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    Count me in for chipping in to pay a developer to fix this.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Jorant

    Jorant Member

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    Me too, but I'd like to know it would go to a good cause and not just pissed away :)
  18. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator

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    Why do you think such a direct telemetry input would induce more latency than the tracking of a controller or tracker does?
    In fact, I rather think a latency (precisely:actuator latency) could even be induced the other way round: if the motion platform driver sends the telemetry data that it wants the platform to be and not where the platform actually is. But, of course, this would be no big problem, as such a "negative latency" can easily be compensated.
  19. J-1775

    J-1775 Aviator

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    I had a Vive ecosystem 1.0 and was absolutely happy with its tracking results. Then I replaced the Vive HMD for a Vive Pro. From day one I encountered tracking problems and ended up placing the lighthouses much closer to each other and myself than before. Thus, at least for me, the promised backward compatibility 2.0/1.0 somehow sucks...
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    There is at least one such system available with OpenVR drivers:

    https://www.optitrack.com/downloads/plugins.html

    No way to be certain before buy however, and its not really cheap.