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VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. rsbell

    rsbell Member

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    Wow-thanks for getting me caught up!

    I really really like the Pimax 5k+. If I didn’t have a motion rig I wouldn’t even consider an Index. But, since I do, I really don’t like driving the motion sim with the Pimax because of the lack of motion cancellation. It’s not too bad if I dial down the motion, but then what’s the point of the motion if I have to crank it down?

    So I decided like you that the Index should have fewer issues with Steam VR and Open VR for motion cancellation. My Index is not being delivered until tomorrow, and I’ll be out of town until Thursday so I won’t be able to do any testing until then.
  2. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Well, it would have been better for my psyche if you told me that the 5K+ was a terrible piece of junk compared to Index LMAO but I suspect that considering how much you like the 5k you will probably be bemoaning the loss of that awesome FOV that you had to accept to get motion cancellation. Hopefully you will like the Index for all it's good qualities, but that FOV seems like it must be very hard to come back from. I've never tried it and yet it's still always calling out to me. =P

    If I could afford to do so I'd do what you are doing. Pick up the 5K+ and use it when I can get it working with motion compensation. If they break it again, switch back to the Index until I can get it working again.

    In reality the performance would be a huge problem for me anyway. I can't really afford to upgrade my GTX 1080 (not a ti) and DCS is a very demanding program when it comes to PC horsepower so it would probably be unplayable for me on any kind of nice looking settings anyway. I need to forget looking at other HMD's and focus instead on enhancing and enjoying what I've got. I'm quite happy with the Index upgrade. The image clarity jump was huge coming from OG Vive and the comfort and sound quality are stellar.
  3. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    Just got a Valve Index but cannot get motion cancellation to be stable.
    I have a Vive tracker as the reference, but the image just starts to drift, it even does it if I select a controller as the reference. This is with no motion action.
    Had a Rift CV1, before which worked pretty well.
  4. rsbell

    rsbell Member

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    This isn’t good news. My Index came in but I won’t be able to test it until this weekend.
  5. JMB3D

    JMB3D Member

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    Valve Index works with Open Vr - Motion Compensation
    Finally my wait is over. [​IMG]
    Confirmed that the index works with my motion rig, fully turned up with Open Vr Motion Compensation.

    My initial testing this evening on road and oval in some practice sessions went very well.
    I used the 144hz with 100%, motion smoothing and just let the graphics configuration take care of everything else for now, so that’s pretty much all settings on high. Everything was stable.
    I found the headset to be light and comfortable, (less bulky than the Vive Pro), the graphics, text and colours were clear and bright, practically no screen door effect once I dialled in my FOV and IPD.
    I did find the face cushion a little thin and I think that might need a mod, early days must get comfortable.

    I had a few glitches with my motion rig, but after uninstalling the Vive software, scan for hardware changes and a general clean up, everything was fine.

    I’m using a Vive tracker for my motion compensation device and after syncing it to steam through the new menus it worked straight away, I’ve also noticed I can turn on steam Vr, my controller, the tracker and then Iracing, set the compensation and I’m away, very quick.
    Before with the Vive a had to follow a strict start up procedure to get all to work, which was ok but now it’s easier.

    I should mention I’m using three 2.0 base stations that I had from my Vive Pro set up.

    It’s still early days with the index but my gut tells me that this is an improvement over the Vive Pro and that will be relegated.

    Hope this helps anyone who was wondering the same as me, I recommend the index, I think steam have done a very good job with this.
    When I get time I will do a video of my current complete set up.

    Please bare in mind my spec below to achieve this.....
    My Rig - Fasetech Racing Cube Simulator (4DOF) Version 2
    Vive Pro, Asus ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING Motherboard, Intel Core i9-7900X CPU
    Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti DUAL OC 11GB ,
    Fanatec DD2, v1.5 Shifter, Hand brake, He Pro Pedals, Carbon fibre bucket seat, Wind Sim, Monitor Audio 5.1
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  6. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    This sounds to me like the 'dirty usb power' isssue. I haven't got to test yet to see if using a clean power USB port allows tracker to work correctly.

    @kparkin Do you have any other SteamVR tracked controllers? If not, do you have any clean power USB ports on your MoBo, an inatek USB expansion card, or a really high quality USB 3.0+ hub with clean power so you can test this as well?

    I need to test motion compensation with the tracker again now that I have this information, but right now the sim isn't ready to run and I won't have much time for sim stuff until day after tomorrow due to US holiday.
  7. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    I decided to do a complete reinstall of windows and of course everything else, as I felt there must be something amiss. I should be up and running again later today.
  8. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Nevermind, the camera idea isn't going to work anyway. No way I can get it to match up anywhere near close enough. I did some experiments tonight and it's no good.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  9. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    @JMB3D Glad to hear you are not having any problems. Just remember if your tracker starts acting up that the first thing to do is try to get it connected (dongle or cord) with a "clean power" USB port. I have 2 USB 3 DAC-UP ports I'm going to try first. Then I've got the Inatek USB card too that I bought when having issues with HMD extension cables.
  10. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    My Pimax 5K+ works absolutely fine with motion cancellation based on Vive tracker. Only problem is buttkicker vibrations, when it turned off there is no problems or drift whatsoever.
  11. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Well, I tested the Vive Tracker tonight with "clean power" USB ports and still had the same problem. Also, the Kyosho gel that seemed to work great two weeks ago didn't seem to do much tonight... there has been at least one SteamVR update so that could explain it.

    So my results are still the same. The Vive Wand is far, far more reliable than the Trackers (I have three). The Trackers will suddenly decide I'm thirty plus feet outside the cockpit, usually off the right wing somewhere. It stays that way for seconds, or for a minute or longer sometimes. This seemed to be mostly a problem when using my bass shakers, but why are they making the optical/laser based positional tracking go bonkers?

    I think EMI might be the answer, I mean I'd definitely think the trackers were more at risk from the VFD's that are only two feet or so away from it, but the shakers/speaker wires being active appears to correlate to when it happens.

    I'm still planning to use the trackers for tracking my hands, so we'll have to see how that goes. On my hands they won't be subjected to the vibration, so hopefully they will work ok.
  12. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    That sounds like what I am experiencing. It does this even when everything is static.
    Could it be steamvr or do others have no issues?
  13. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    You say when everything is static, how about sources of EM interference?

    I assume you have only one tracker to test with? Do you have a Vive Wand (or Knuckles) that you can use instead? That should solve the problem.
  14. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    When I say static, I mean that no motion is active at this point.
    Yes, one tracker. I do have Knuckles and will try using one of those, there a re few other things that I want to try as well.
  15. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Right, and I assume you also mean no bass shakers or anything like that running as well.

    What I meant was; are the electrical systems of your simulator powered on or off? If the equipment has power it could potentially be interfering so if you haven't already, do a quick test with no power to the sim.

    If you have that problem with no power to the sim and nothing potentially blocking or reflecting the Lighthouse lasers I'd say you have a defective or damaged Tracker. If this happens only when the sim does have power, then that might be evidence that my guess that EMI is the problem with the trackers losing positional tracking may be correct.

    On a side note, something interesting: When my trackers do this thing, It seems like I always wind up offset in roughly the same general direction and roughly the same distance. I end up somewhere near the right wingtip of my aircraft. Interesting that I never wind up on the left side of the airplane, or behind it, or in front.
  16. kparkin

    kparkin Member Gold Contributor

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    Good point.
  17. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Let me know what happens, I'm very curious to gather more data on trouble with trackers.

    Also, do you have gen 1, or gen 2 Vive Trackers? Gen 2 have blue logo. Mine are Gen1 with gray logo.

    Trip
  18. JMB3D

    JMB3D Member

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    I'm using the Tracker with the blue logo, I have no issues at all with my tracker, I don't use the dongle either.
    I am using 3 or 4 - 2.0 base stations which I assume are better than 1.0.
    I also use Clip-on Ferrite Core Ring Bead Anti-interference High-frequency Filter RFI EMI Noise Suppressor Cable Clip on all my cables.
    Hope this helps.
  19. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    LOL well, there's a whole slew of reasons to explain why you aren't having trouble eh?

    Well, testing gen2 trackers and/or base stations is not an option for me (financially). I really want to go to 3 or 4 of those buggers myself. =( Theoretically the 2.0 tracking is no more accurate, but having three or four of them instead of two is a different story.
    The Ferrite rings are something I think I'll price out, that is an excellent idea.
    The dongle. I think it's required to connect more than two controllers at once isn't it? I may try the tracker without the dongle, FOR SCIENCE. =D
  20. 4apaev

    4apaev Member

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    I also don't see any difference between Tracker and Wand, except latter is easier to properly mount on the rig. Using 2.0 Trackers with old version Lighthouses, keep tracker wired, no dongle.

    Seems to me that problem is unsolvable using just physical insulation. Cushioning can tone shaking down a bit, but introduce wobble, so there is tight sweet spot to find between dampening material and shaker settings. And it will always be much lower on vibe, then in Oculus camera days. Fingers crossed for some software solution, although purely optical tracking with no gyro may work as well.