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VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Ah nevermind then, my copy is Steam as well, I thought you had the Oculus Home version. Thanks anyway!
  2. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    OK guys, I was just trying to get DCS World (standalone version) working and not having any luck and made an interesting discovery.

    Just sitting in the default black space in SteamVR when I turned on motion compensation I got the same effect as I get in game when I try to use it on Rift. Moving the compensator touch around doesn't move my perspective, it just moves the window into the world, so if you turn the controller right black encroaches on your view from the left side, rotate it in the roll axis 45 degrees and the world is still level, but the window into the world is now sortof diamond shaped.

    So, does anyone have motion compensation working on a Rift in anything that is not an Oculus Store game?

    @Limongi have you made motion compensation work with Revive in an Oculus Store game? Also what method did you use to get it working in the games that it does work on?
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  3. Limongi

    Limongi Member

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    @Trip Rodriguez Test results are in! Sadly although it's a steam game and I launch via steam it will always run via oculus. The only games that work on my end are games that have the OpenVr option.

    Taking the camera shake off did help a lot as it was set to high!
  4. Limongi

    Limongi Member

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    Open the steam vr dashboard, and turn the motion comp on in the OpenVr app.

    In assetto you can select "openVR early support" in the graphics setup (the area that allows you to select triple screens/ oculus).

    In iracing when it pops up with the would you like to launch this in your oculus headset click no, then a second pop up should ask the same question but this time with the OpenVr headset as option, click yes.

    Also the black window thing happens if I take my tracking controller out of its holder on my rig. If I leave it alone I don't have that issue, but once you get it it won't go away unless you reboot steam vr.
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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  5. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Hmm.. that is interesting also. I'm installing Assetto Corsa now to test.

    My main goal is to get it working in Dirt Rally, but it's awful through Revive at least with the steam version. SilentChill appears to have had it working but I haven't been able to get in touch with him.
  6. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    @Limongi Thanks for trying! So now I'm thinking probably it wouldn't work in the Oculus Store version either since it seems it's OpenVR support that does the trick. I guess the only option I've got is to try to get to like Assetto Corsa.
  7. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    @Limongi I installed Assetto Corsa (Steam) and got ReVive working.

    First try at least motion compensation worked for translations but not rotations. I rebooted and about to try again.

    Edit: 2nd try and it's the same. Are you certain that it works for rotational correction for you? If you tilt your motion sim as far as it can go left or right does the car in your VR headset stay level to the ground or level to the floor/chair of the motion sim?

    If your sim doesn't create that much angle maybe it wouldn't be readily apparent? For me it definitely does not work for rotations, the shape of the "window" into the world tilts but the actual game world does not.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  8. Limongi

    Limongi Member

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    @Trip Rodriguez as my sim cannot produce rotation this is most likely why it goes "black border" when I hold the controller and is fine when connected to the rig. I'm dealing with far less movement than you at only 9.5 degrees +\- in pitch and roughly 11.5 in roll and no rotation.

    Your setup looks like it may have the most rotation of any 6dof on here and my guess is that the OpenVr cannot deal with cancelling that much out without a great deal of latency or artifacts.
  9. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Thanks for the info. I know there are others here with more travel than mine =D.

    As for the motion cancellation, with Vive the motion cancellation was absolutely perfect, even with the sim at max travel and angle so this is a bug with Oculus and the plugin.

    @Limongi if you are using Rift and your sim is only 2DOF pitch and roll I'm pretty sure the motion cancellation plugin is actually doing almost nothing for you. Try running with it off and compare. With Oculus only the heave/sway/surge compensation works, and you don't have any of those. The only thing it would be fixing is if when your sim pitches or rolls you find your view noticeably moving forward/back or left/right in the car and with the kind of travel you have I wouldn't think that would really be noticeable. Might as well race with native Oculus support and get the benefit of ASW.

    If you do find the plugin makes a difference, please report back with details, I'll be anxious to hear.

    Thanks!
  10. Limongi

    Limongi Member

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    @Trip Rodriguez When I first read this thread, I decided during my build that I wouldn't even bother with cancellation as many said it wouldn't matter for fast, short throw motion. Then I meticulously spent hours and hours tuning one game at a time till I felt I couldn't get it any better. But the more I drove the more I noticed this floating in corners feel with sway, and like my seat was rolling back and fourth in the slider when I would pitch down and back through a chicane (the first downhill section on nordschleife going from brake back on throttle while changing directions). I feel that the thousands of hours driving IRL your body is conditioned to pick up very subtle and abstract information which makes even small disconnects between motion and visuals noticeable, and for me once noticed , annoying and disappointing. So you're right motion cancellation is doing almost nothing for my setup, but its an almost nothing that really causes me to loose my immersion (in long sweeping corners you go from looking at the right side of your steering column to the left side and your wheel just kinda creepily cruises by) .

    Then I got motion cancellation working on assetto and it went from good to completely losing myself in the realism of it all. Nailing corners and feeling the loss of grip rather than feeling like I was floating and suddenly driving laps that felt completely connected on a real road surface.

    So yeah, if I never tried it I would be fine, and I've been playing a bit of dirt since you got me to dust it off and its lots of fun with motion but compared how the Lotus 79 in Assetto with the motion properly cancelled it feels like there is a disconnect with the cars interior (albeit a very subtle one).

    I hope it helps knowing that even had you not made your amazing 6DOF simulator you'd still be annoyed with the lack of lossless motion cancellation in a simple 2DOF!

    EDIT: Also you still run heave, sway, surge, only they are rendered via pitch which still has the headset shifting slightly.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  11. clyevo

    clyevo New Member

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    With that being said, 6dof hexapod design has big axis movement and a method of motion cancellation is compulsory. If not the disconnect in visual and motion can cause nausea and severe headache, at least for me. How does it work for vive users, does it work perfectly with 6dof unlike what our oculus users experience. @Trip Rodriguez , u had the chance to use vive and oculus, is it not worth it to use vive with good motion cancellation vs oculus despite oculus hmd visual clarity being better.

    I had and idea to solve the problem of lack of rotational compensation on oculus for matzman plugin. I was able to cancel out the motion with facetracknoir software using constellation of IR led attached to the motion simulator and camera attach to outside world. It is difficult to implement because the head pivot point always move in comparison to the motion simulator. Interestingly, opentrack does work in game while in HMD mode for dirt rally and assetto corsa but not for project cars. It might work if i dont move my head away relative to the IR sensor mount at the seat during race and it needs lot of trial and error to get it right. For all the headaches that i went through, i think it is much better to get Vive if it work well with matzman plugin.
  12. Trip Rodriguez

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    @Limongi I totally understand that! I'm all about anything that can improve immersion.

    @clyevo I tested MatzMan666 plugin with HTC Vive in DCS World and it worked pretty much flawlessly. I had myself talked into switching to Vive as a result but when I switched back to Rift I couldn't believe how much better distant terrain and objects looked. In the end I just couldn't talk myself into sacrificing comfort (eye strain), detail, and adding so much blurriness away from the center of the lenses.

    I think the only answer is you have to try it for yourself because different people perceive things differently. Ultimately for me the Vive lenses were what turned me away but that is not the case for everyone.

    The other really big factor is unlike most folks here I'm mostly a flight sim guy with a side of racing. Flying doesn't require as much movement of the motion sim as driving does. After I got over the novelty of big motion I kept toning things down for improved realism and my motion is now pretty subtle. I will want to increase heave, surge, yaw, and sway once I've got cancellation.

    Racing though, I've pretty much given up until I've got motion cancellation. I'm hoping the LG SteamVR headset might be the answer, though paying for it will mean more credit debt. =(
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    You can understand why many of us have thrown our hat in the Pimax ring, despite there being some technical issues to resolve and risks associated with Kickstarter, as it offers clearer screens that the Rift or Vive, a wide FOV and uses SteamVR, so motion cancellation will work. The LG SteamVR headset is an alternate possibility but as the recently released MS MR HMDs have shown while there is a slight increase in screen fidelity it is not as much as some expect, as there are way more factors involved in VR than just screen specs.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  14. clyevo

    clyevo New Member

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    That is the answer i've been looking for. It's looking good with all the new HMD supporting OpenVR coming out next year. However, ongoing development of the matzman plugin is important because openVR will have many changes in the future. I hope matzman will continue development of motion cancellation.

    @noorbeast, did u pledge for pimax 8k in kickstarter? I missed the early bird so i am thinking it is no longer worth it, better wait for retail version after consumer reviews came out.
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    @noorbeast, did u pledge for pimax 8k in kickstarter? I missed the early bird so i am thinking it is no longer worth it, better wait for retail version after consumer reviews came out.[/QUOTE]
    Yes I did pledge, despite having some reservations about some of the technical challenges Pimax still need to resolve and how that may affect timelines, plus I really don't like Kickstarter. Basically I am treating it as a possible failure, which you have to do with Kickstarter.

    If the 8K works well I will consider also getting the 8K X retail version, but was not prepared to go that far for the Kickstarter because of the even greater number of technical issues that need to be resolved, though @SeatTime did and will be able to give us all a realistic review.
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  16. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to try out Pimax 8K at some point, but Pimax 4K was unusable for me. The general consensus is that for Pimax 4K the lower your IPD the better, and mine is 2.5 mm above average. =(
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  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    IPD adjustment was added to the V3 Pimax 8k prototype:

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  18. clyevo

    clyevo New Member

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    Is there a possibility for pimax 8k to disable IMU and use solely outside tracking like IR led sensors on the motion simulator itself? (Officially or hacked through 3rd party openvr plugin) I am not sure if this is discuss before in pimax forum but i am sure it is unpopular because of latency issue is not using IMU. But it will actually help motion simulator users like us, because motion cancellation is redundant and causes more lag. Now the other problem is pimax 8k uses lighthouse, i am not sure if pimax has laser refresh rate is sufficient for this method.
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Motion cancellation is anything but redundant, particularly for simulators that have large axis movements. Pimax using Lighthouse is not a problem, rather it is a benefit, as motion cancellation works far better with native SteamVR. The lighthouse tracking is very robust and can cover a far larger area than IR based cameras systems such as the Rift, plus Lighthouse base stations have a greater FOV than Oculus cameras.
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  20. Greg Driver

    Greg Driver New Member

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    Hi, Nice to meet you all.
    I am Greg from Driver4VR. I was invited by @Trip Rodriguez as I might be able to help you with problems specific to simulator platform. I have been briefly through and I can see that major problem now is that move cancellation is actually working on 'window' inside headset for those of you with Oculus.
    Please let me know if this is what you need and I can help. If there is any other topics I would like also hear from you :)
    Greetings,
    Greg
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