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VR Motion Cancellation - Time to test!

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, May 6, 2017.

  1. Bobpies

    Bobpies New Member

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    you are using this workaround yourself? i read somewhere that its not totally necessary - will have to try it out. still building the bloody rig (3 days later)
  2. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    I am using it. Trying to fly without it is no fun. Having said that I haven't used the rig in weeks as I still find it flaky and I don't like running in SteamVR mode. My interim solution is to build a G Seat - no actual movement, just the forces are felt.
  3. Bobpies

    Bobpies New Member

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    ive read its not as much of a problem for sim racing - which is all im doing
  4. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    As far as I know yes. =( I really wish Oculus would add motion cancellation. I even tried switching to Vive but just couldn't deal with the reduction in image clarity and performance (performance difference being ASW). I sold the Vive after a few weeks of testing, at a significant loss.

    Also so you are aware, this solution is generally incompatible with shakers. If you can isolate the motion controller from the vibration you can get around this but that's not as easy as it sounds.
  5. Bobpies

    Bobpies New Member

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    Just tried this and it worked quite well
    Not quite as smooth as with ASW on but the head doesn’t vibrate like fook anymore!

    struggled with motion sickness during dirt rally . Think I need to just reduce the overall effects of the rig during this one maybe
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Last week after a long period I tried to optimize motion in combination with VR. Basically without motion cancellation it's impossible to feel real on the rig. Shaking doubles the overall effects and nausea is the consequence. Especially on a seat shaker...
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    A major OpenVR-InputEmulator update has just dropped: https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-InputEmulator

    Changelog:

    Revamped input remapping and added a GUI.
    Added "kalman filter" and "moving average" as motion compensation vel/acc compensation mode.
    Other bugfixes and improvements.

    With respect to motion cancellation here is the full section:

    [​IMG]

    Vel/Acc Compensation Mode: How should reported velocities and acceleration values be adjusted. The problem with only adjusting the headset position is that pose prediction also takes velocity and acceleration into account. As long as the reported values to not differ too much from the real values, pose prediction errors are hardly noticeable. But with fast movements of the motion platform the pose prediction error can be noticeable. Available modes are:

    • Disabled: Do not adjust velocity/acceleration values.
    • Set Zero: Set all velocity/acceleration values to zero. Most simple form of velocity/acceleration compensation.
    • Use Reference Tracker: Subtract the velocity/acceleration values of the motion compensation reference tracker/controller from the values reported from the headset. Most accurate form of velocity/acceleration compensation. However, it requires that the reference tracker/controller is as closely mounted to the head position as possible. The further away it is from the head position the larger the error.
    • Linear Approximation w/ Moving Average (Experimental): Uses linear approximation to estimate the velocity/acceleration values. The used formula is: (current_position - last_position) / time_difference. To reduce jitter the average over the last few values is used.
    • Moving Average Window: How many values are used for calculating the average.
    • Kalman Filter (Experimental): The position values are fed into a kalman filter which then outputs a velocity value. The kalman filter implementation is based on the filter described here.
    • Process/Observation Noise: Parameters used to fine-tune the kalman filter.
    • Informative Informative x 5
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  8. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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  9. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    I bought a bunch of these to mount the seat on which seems to be helping as the shakers are fixed to the seat. I mount the tracker on the rig rather than the seat - not ideal for cancellation calculations, but I'm going to build some brackets to move it as close to my head as possible.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4Pcs-M3-...e-Silentblock-F-Boat-Car-Bobbin-/382145682171
  10. clyevo

    clyevo New Member

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    I've tried oculus CV1 and have the same problem. I have 6dof that can do 30 degree roll, yaw, pitch so it is very apparent. It seems rotational compensation does not work and the view area goes out of headset view causing blank black area to show instead. I've been struggling with this problem since yesterday. Can anyone else confirm this is a known issue so that i can perhaps move on to other solutions. @SilentChill, are you using older version of oculus runtime and that it is working for you and not have this problem?
  11. clyevo

    clyevo New Member

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    Do you have this problem on any other games e.g Asetto Corsa? From your last post in matzman github, it seems like you are still using CV1 for your project.

    From reading this thread no one got VR working properly on 6dof motion simulator yet well enough yet.

    I am thinking the solution is pledging for pimax 8k with the base stations but i am skeptical about the vibrations from bass shaker still affecting the HMD IMU accuracy. The alternative is welding a mount for the good old conventional lcd monitor; most likely will go for 21:9 ultrawide 29 inch monitors. I am still hoping VR will work on motion simulator though, they are so meant for each other.
  12. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I haven't had any luck, but I've only tried in DCS and Dirt Rally. SilentChill had it working at one point at least, I sent him a PM hoping to find out if it still works for him and if so how he is doing it.

    I am using CV1. Currently I'm only flying and just using smaller movements. To get racing I need the motion compensation. I'm also hoping that the LG SteamVR headset will actually come out in 2018 and that it will have a display that looks at least as good as Rift CV1 (Vive is far inferior).

    There is also one other thing, if we are willing to pay for it I'm almost certain we can get the guy who makes DRIVER4VR to work on this for us since MatzMan666 dropped off the grid. I'd absolutely be willing to pay a fee myself for working motion compensation. How about you guys?
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    The specs of the LG HMD are better than the Rift or Vive and so too are those of the Samsung Odyssey Windows HMD, but that is only part of the story as the lenses also have a critical role.

    There are some slight differences in specs between the Rift and Vive screens, the Vive is significantly brighter and has more vibrant colors and the Rift is optimised for pixel fill. However in terms of use the the different implementations of the Fresnel lenses have more of an effect. So between the Rift and Vive the Rift has a smaller FOV, greater stereo overlap, more god rays, but on the up side has a bigger sweet spot and less screen door effect. The Vive has bigger FOV (particularly if using the thin face pad), less stereo overlap, less god rays but more lens rings effect, smaller sweet spot and less light bleed (design not lenses).
  14. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I really, really badly wanted to switch to Vive because of the motion cancellation but couldn't stand the difference. Mostly the lenses, the sweet spot was small to an extreme for me and everything off dead center was blurry as hell. Also to me I feel like the Vive display pixels look like 3D little bumps, weird I know.

    Palmer Luckey implied at one point that the LG VR headset might not actually happen, and the long silence coupled with that has me a bit concerned. The headset was shown again recently, but as near as I can tell it was still the same prototype which is concerning.

    Don't get me wrong, what I want most in the world of VR is a headset upgrade that runs natively on SteamVR. I believe in that platform and want in on it. Even now as I sit here I am questioning myself "was it (Vive) really that bad?". The answer however I'm confident is "yes", I exhaustively compared the two for over a month before I sold the Vive (and took a beating in the process).
  15. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    As I expect to be using '8K' Pimax sometime in the new year, I'm hoping that the motion cancellation will work as advertised with a native Steam VR system.
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My point was to clarify the pros and cons, particularly as they relate to screens and lenses, and possibilities affecting perception of those, like the thin Vive face pad increasing FOV that also changes the perception of the sweet spot size. There are also other factors such as individual face shape + any eyesight issues which will affect perceived visual fidelity and comfort. At the current level of tech it is always a trade off and thus far there are more pro and cons differences than outright superiority.

    Increased screen specs alone are not always the bump in quality that people may think, because things like the lenses, pixel density for a given resolution and individual factors come into play, for example this Samsung Odyssey comparison with the Rift: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/7cvhwc/ordered_a_samsung_odyssey_to_compare_with_the/

    It should, but will likely benefit from vibration management experiments if using transducers, much in the same way you and others experimented with on-board camera management for the Rift.
  17. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Index Gold Contributor

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    I don't get the beef with the Vive. I've tried both and much prefer Vive to Rift but that's my own opinion. There is more screen door but it's not excessive but since they have the same number of pixels, the tradeoff is more field of view in the Vive. And the tracking for me is flawless. I still haven't fired up motion cancellation on my 2 dof, but from what I hear Vive motion cancellation works great but Oculus changed their driver somehow that broke it and it remains broken. Even at the current price on CV1, I'd still rather pay the bump and have a Vive. For me it's just that much better and I don't have to string cameras or deal with any of the other stuff.

    I know everyone will have their own preferences but for me it's Vive hands down. And for whatever it's worth, I was told by a guy from Valve that SteamVR will eventually have native motion cancellation. He didn't say when or what the status was, but it's coming supposedly at some point.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. kermitkong

    kermitkong Active Member Gold Contributor

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    I can confirm it!
    I bought the vive to compare it , it is totally worth compared to the oculus CV1 in terms of image quality , blurryness and sweet spot.
  19. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    No doubt that each has advantages and I didn't mean to trash-talk the Vive. I think it partly depends on what you are playing. The DCS World community pretty much unanimously agree that Rift is far better than Vive, but that is because we are constantly trying to see detail at long distances.

    One of my main tests was sitting on the pad in a Huey while a C130 took off from the nearby runway. I ran this with the exact same parameters with Vive, Rift, and Pimax many times over. With Vive the C130 was basically a slightly blurry silhouette. With Rift I could see the shape of the aircraft clearly. In that same scene there was also a treeline maybe a mile away and in the Rift I could clearly make out individual trees where with Vive the treeline was more of a treeline shaped blob.

    The cockpit on the other hand looked just fine in Vive. Pimax of course was clearer than either, except with my own physical IPD of 67.5mm vs the fixed physical (63ish I think I heard) IPD of the Pimax headset and lack of fresnel lenses the Pimax headset was like being permanently cross-eyed. For Pimax it seems the lower your IPD the better, being a couple mm obove average I couldn't use it.

    I really appreciated the increased vertical FOV of the Vive and the motion compensation was great but there was too much blurriness and it caused a lot more eye strain for me. The screen-door effect didn't much bother me.
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    We all preferences for different reasons @Trip Rodriguez.

    I have bad astigmatism in my right eye but don't use glasses or contacts in VR. I find the Rift stereo overlap is hard on my eyes over time, particularly as I can't do individual eye relief like I can with the Vive. And with the thin face pad the Vive has a much better FOV and being closer to your eye the sweet spot seems bigger than normal, plus it is significantly brighter and hence more vibrant, hence a bit easier to see with out of my pretty blurry right eye. Not that the sweet spot matters much with my right eye, as astigmatism imposes its own significant limitation of clear vision sweet spot, even with my glasses. Weight wise the Rift is a bit lighter but DAS is more comfortable and convenient for my head shape, particularly when I am constantly putting the HMD on and taking it off for dev work.

    I agree the Rift is a bit sharper and ASW has advantages for getting the most out of settings tweaks, particularly for sim games that are not well optimised for VR. And as I don't really need motion cancellation with my compact rig my Rift spends most of its time hooked up there for those reasons.

    I am hoping the Pimax 8k actually lives up to expectations and hype, because if it does it will likely suit me better than the Rift and Vive, but I am also a bit skeptical about its claims and timelines.
    • Agree Agree x 1