1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Tronic's DIY dual Mosfet H-bridge (DSMhb)

Discussion in 'Motor actuators and drivers' started by tronicgr, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. kbssa

    kbssa New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Brazil
    Balance:
    0Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hi, I have a question !

    Can I connect the h-bridge in just one battery car or I need one for each motor ?
  2. Hardsteel73

    Hardsteel73 Hardsteel73

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Occupation:
    Self employed
    Location:
    bergschenhoek
    Balance:
    162Coins
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    So close yet so far.
    Flipping the wires of the motor 1 worked! YESSSS!
    Silly enough this is POT1.
    POT2 only turns only one way.....this is not something i seem to be able to adjust with the potmeter on the amc board...right?

    I'm so close i can taste it!!! grrrr who has the answer?
    swapping potmeter or motor doesn't change anything.


    One battery for 2 motors should be enough...
  3. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Good day thanos ...
    Good day every one ...

    I don't know if this is silly or an impotent question ...But it's an idea spark that I want to share with Thanos and every one .

    How about hocking together the two sides of a single DSMHB board to become as one motor controller with large Ampere from same battery ??
    And how many boards can be paralleled for one motor output?
    Count the result
    :5+5:

    the new AMC1.6 USB motion controller needs a power-full scalable H-bridge ,and it's like controlling more gates of the same dam at the very same time for the same river .
    :D Luckily 99.9% of all dams on planet earth are bridges too .

    EXCL001.jpg
    or
    three-gorges-dam-5.jpg

    My point is to use both the channels in DSMhb to control one motor from the same battery

    If this possible not playing with MOSFETs ... And for gate control .Should this be done before(1) the 7408 or after(2) ?

    Here is what I think to do ... drill some holes put some jumpers to:

    (1) Jumper the [M1in1 - M2in1] & [M2in1 - M2in2 ] &[PWM1 - PWM2] together on the DSMhb board connected with one motor drive bus [M1in1-M1in2-PWM1] respectively coming from the AMC ...and [M2in1-M2in2-PWM2] are NOT CONNECTED ... so the 7408 _using all AND gates inside it _ can drive both sides MOSFETs of the DSMhb board equally giving one big drive Amps to MOTOR1 only (also bridging the output together) ? :?
    the 7408 logic gate diagram
    images.jpeg

    final H-bridge confirmed stable board layout (use IRF3205 instead of IRFZ44N)
    dual_simple_hbridge_1_2b_photo.gif
    (2) Using the same motor drive data bus[M1in1-M1in2-PWM1] as normal and discarding the [M2in1-M2in2-PWM2] not connected from AMC (use them later)... and just jumper the [HB0 to HB2] and [HB1 to HB3] output signals after the 7408 _ thus using half of the AND gates _ to drive both sides MOSFETs of the DSMhb board instantly with the same gate voltages giving same results for the motor1 ? :preved:

    These two solutions isn't final yet ,they have to be tested first .But first I have some relative questions.
    Which connection is better regarding the game ,the AMC ,the DSMhb ,and the motor ?
    Which connection is preferred if interfacing with other boards like Arduino ? :bulboff:
    Unfortunately I don't have yet a completed working DSMhb due to some error unable to define yet.
    So ,Thanos ...What you think ? Does it make sense or sounds like a bit good Idea ?
    drop me a line ...
    thanks
    abdo_tahan
  4. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi every one ...
    Good news ... :clap:
    I did hocked up the two circuits and got a HUGE results . :mug1:
    further modifications are in progress ...
    you are gonna love it . :thbup:
  5. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    It can be done. Just never needed for the small wiper morors!
  6. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi Thanos ...
    Good day every one ...

    All in one simple scalable unlimited power DIY Mosfet H-Bridge (DSMhb) ...
    Use it (one for two) OR (many for one ) motor control ...
    you can't get it simpler than this ... Again it will be every one's Final Destination :lol:
    here Thanos you can modify the layer of the board to be finally custom used for Small ,Medium ,Large ,X Large ,XX Large DC motors :rofl: with this simple good board design for DIY users .

    Troubleshooting my DSMhb I've came across every single error that every one had and more ... Lucky :lol: ...I assure you that they are all assembling faults ... I remember them very will and I'm willing of putting them all in one troubleshooting table ... cause and effect ... what to use if you didn't find one main component ... Like: you don't find the IRLZ44N MOSFET ... then use IRF3205 OR the IRFZ44N MOSFET's they are more popular than IRLZ44N Logic-Level Gate Drive MOSFET ...and due to the IC 7408 chip voltage restrictions additional cheep elements circuit should be added similar to but not this one
    http://www.reuk.co.uk/DC-Voltage-Multiplier-Circuit-Plans.htm
    to provide the drive voltages that are required .

    My results of connecting the two sides of my DSMhb make a starter motor hummm and tends to move ... :clap: it just needs another hole board to be paralleled ...

    Forgive me Thanos ... But I want to minimize wiring and do some little modifications to my DSMhb PCB layer and can't find the Express PCB file of it ...!!! Would you allow me ,please ? :blush:
    I Promise to share results ... I'm not selfish .Just let me help . :sos:
    point me to it ...

    Thanks :D
    abdo_tahan
  7. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    This is looking interesting for sure. I wonder what sort of current could you crank out of it?
  8. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Check you PM... :yes:
  9. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I assume, about 40A per motor safely...
  10. eloverphx

    eloverphx Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    79
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Shakopee, Minnesota, USA
    Balance:
    307Coins
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Joyrider
    Abdo, can you tell me which method you used to tie the two sides of the h-bridge together and the channel out of the amc. I would like to try your idea as well to try to get my motors to work. I have low resistance on my wiper motors and can't get them to run on my h-bridge.
  11. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    There are still some modifications I want to make to the board output to handle large motors connection like : 6mm wires ,fuses ,... etc.

    the layout now looks very bad but I'm working on it .

    I don't want to miss up things with you guys ... BIG Warning ... You could SHORT the tow sides together if not connected properly ... Be careful . :nofinger:

    I have used method 2 of my previous post ... I have connected the [ HB1 with HB2] , and [ HB0 with HB3] .... that would make the two outputs for both motors M2's & M1's are at the same polarity for both directions ... If you understand the concept then give it a try . :bulboff:

    For channel out [driving data bus] of the AMC as you say .... Split the cable coming from the AMC into two long end connections labeling them DSMhb-M1 and DSMhb-M2
    For each end connection do the following :
    -[DSMhb-M1] end connection ... as original just disconnect anything that says M2 coming from the AMC and keep the Vcc and Gnd .
    -[DSMhb-M2] end connection ... as original just disconnect anything that says M1 coming from the AMC and keep the Vcc and Gnd .

    Sorry for no quality image ... but you will get what I mean .
    CDSMhb with AMC board connection.jpg
    Keep in mind that connections on are reversed .[ AMC board is controlling Motor2 via M1in1 ,M1in2 ,PWM1 ,feed back pot1 ].
    :cheers:

    abdo_tahan
  12. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Good day Thanos ...
    Greetings every one ...

    I've finished the coupling version modification ... :toohot:... tested it my self ... any help needed for building or assembling it , just ask !! :yes: )
    see next files ...
    sprint_5_DSMHB_Coupled Enabled_C2_Copper side_2 boards.pdf sprint_5_DSMHB_Coupled Enabled_C2_silkscreen side_2 boards.pdf sprint_5_DSMHB_Coupled Enabled_side1 C1_S1.JPG
    DSMHB-coupling instructions.txt


    Careful ... for new members ... First read and understand carefully all assembling instructions for this board previous versions in wiki section ...
    [Thanos did a great job on this point ] :clap: ...and it is on first page of this thread ...


    happy weekend for all of you :barbeque: ...you're gonna love it :brows:
    Best Regards and more :brows: ... going to you Thanos ...
    abdo_tahan
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  13. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I used IRF3205 instead of IRFZ44N on many of my h-bridges and could get full saturation even with +5v logic level only!
  14. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    sure my friend you get in saturation easily with +5v ... but . :5+5:

    IRF3205 and the IRFZ44N N-channel best performance is not with the 5v driving signal as I see actually by testing them separately with a 12v positive connected to the gates ... they are MONSTERS . :brows:
    just like genuine IRF4905 P-channel when connected to ground .

    As further problems coming due to my luck :thbd: I'm having a problem with a fake IRF4905 MOSFET's ... it's not giving more than 2A when fully continuous ground connected and tested with actual motors and 12v battery ammeter (using a starter motor for motorcycles 60A start /36A continuous ) and they are getting too hot ... (this may clear some issues many others are having ) and really you can't tell the deference visually .

    My previous set of mosfets had a broken legs and burned out ...
    My local dealer is still not convinced about his bad patch of MOSFET's ... F***k u china :mug1: they are really missing up with world.

    I'm now moving further to the full N-Channel H-bridge using the IR2110 half bridge driver and giving it more mosfets to make it stronger ...

    any suggestions are welcome ...


    abdo_tahan
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  15. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Here Thanos ...
    12v-driving-signal-layout.pdf
    I did this small circuit to convert the 5V into a 12V pulses to pull up N-MOSFET's gates of the low side to full connectivity .

    you can make it on a small test board ... 2 for each side of the DSMHB board ... then cut tracks connecting the HB0,HB1 for single motor side and use the signal coming from the 74HC08 as input and connect the output to the 3.6k resistor .

    I've tested it yesterday with single side DSMHB with the last genuine IRF4905 I have... and got a working small starter motor in one direction with a very hot heat sink on the high side . :cheers: I will update the coupled version layout with this .

    abdo_tahan
  16. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Good Job Abdo, I never had to change anything cause all was working fine for me. Now you are saying about counterfeit parts, that could be indeed the reason that many of the builds are failing or are overheated. I never encountered any fake mosfets so far.

    I have a last DSMhb PCB left, that may assemble some time and add your driving signal circuit. Lately I use ready motor drivers from pololu as they are much smaller in size (10 times less) and somewhat more efficient.
  17. Michael N.

    Michael N. Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Germany, NRW, Düren
    Balance:
    611Coins
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Hi,
    i have change my small Car Wipermotors against big Golftrolleymotors (12V, 180W, 25:1 gear ratio, Rated Torque 5,5 Nm and Peak Torque 64 Nm :brows: ). I have do a Test and was wondering that the mosfet IRF3205 and IRF4905 was going very hot. With the Car Wipermotors there was no problem. What is the maximum temperature of these mosfets?. Perhaps i have to improve my mosfetcooling.
    Can this H-bridge handle such big motors?. I don`t make a measurement till now, but i guess each motor take 20A at full Load.
  18. estanislaolopez

    estanislaolopez Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Argentina
    Balance:
    503Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, SimforceGT
    Hi Michael, the bridge supports 20 Amp well, I think you should change the IRF3205 by IRLZ44N, there must be your temperature problem that is transmitted by the sink to IRF4905
    I hope you understand me, I use traslator

    Regards
  19. Michael N.

    Michael N. Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Germany, NRW, Düren
    Balance:
    611Coins
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Hi,
    thank you for your reply. I have ordered some IRLZ44N and will test them.
  20. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Alexandria , Egypt
    Balance:
    7,818Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,276 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    hi every one ...
    I've made a 8 MOSFET ,full N-channel ,with a computer fan cooler for best cooling ,using the IR2110 MOSFET driver IC ... testes and working
    here is the project
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014