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Tronicg 6 DOF - Professional Grade - 5000.00

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by cthiggin, Sep 24, 2014.

  1. bsft

    bsft

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    I cannot find his 6DOF link ATM, but heres some of his videos
    remember this is still in progress

    And you mention you have to move 170kg total, this boy is nearly 160 kg on his own.
    Again, before you take stabs at it, there would be more work done with profiles
  2. bsft

    bsft

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    found another one
    • Like Like x 1
  3. riton

    riton Active Member

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    for this first 6DOF,
    I do not find it especially good, waiting to have video games with a cockpit and a pilot.

    the 2nd 6 DOF is very slow, with a lot of inertia.
    when you see the hood of the car moving on the screen, on the simulator, nothing is happening ...
    I greatly respect the work, but this is incorrect.

    not enough power.


    for the rest it is a 2 DOF / 3DOF with a pivot.

    we also see the lack of power.

    that's what I thought.

    on one side is called vibration performance, but here it is not reactive

    do not get me wrong, I just want to discuss the differences and advance discution;) :)
    on these videos (no side effect, it was during settings)
    you look at the hood or the cockpit of the car in the game, the simulator moves accordingly.

    no inertia, the speed is there, it also moves on small effects.
    you can watch multiple crossing with light or in the dark, and in HD, to see well



    • Old Old x 1
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  4. bsft

    bsft

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    As said, its a work in progress for him, He has set profiles to how he likes. And he is working on his own code to get the motion how HE likes it.
    The 6DOF again is a work in progress, and again, its NOT FINISHED.
    Ok, I found videos from a former member , Aldoz and his 3 boat winch motor sim, yes there is a spring underneath to assist weight holding


    But as said, I think this is not going to end.
    you are not interested in comparisons, its obvious that you are pushing the likes of a Thanos 240v sim. Your comments are blunt and talk only about the benefits of YOUR system.
    I could post every video of my 12v units and I am sure you will pick at them."not enough power....no vibtration....." etc etc.
    Its pointless continuing for me.
  5. Scratch

    Scratch Active Member

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    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Was that Historikers 6dof platform videos bsft posted? Videos were impressive. So were ritons videos. Why fight, AC and DC motors, they both have their strenghts. Personally, I would not build an AC sim, but clearly, according to ritons videos, AC motors can be FAST. And ofcourse strong. I'm not sure can DC motors rival their performance, but surely there are amazing motion sims built with DC motors.
  6. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen, You all have the right to make statements and state opinions. But these days, numbers are what tell fact from fiction (if the numbers stated are correct that is)! :nerd

    Please state the following, where applicable, to make proper comparisons of motors and gearboxes: motor voltage, motor amperage and/or wattage, motor max rpm or final reduced gearbox rpm, gearbox ratio, and motor torque or torque at gearbox output. From this we can extrapolate the information need to properly compare and contrast.

    What is interesting to note though is I did not ask to state whether or not AC or DC power is being used. Why? It doesn’t matter; they are both the same animal when it comes to power calculations!



    Since the winch motor linked to above doesn’t state an rpm or reel take-up speed, we can’t tell for sure what speed it is. But, since it is a smaller motor, lets assume its speed is something like 3600rpm instead of 1800. We also know the gearbox ratio is 153:1. So using this scenario, the winch reel would have a maximum speed of 3600/153 = 23.5 max rpm. Of course, if it were only an 1800rpm motor, it would be closer to 12rpm. And if you've ever used a winch under hard to pull circumstances, you know they slow down big time under a load.

    So, while these winch motors are probably fast enough for 6dof flight, they would probably be a bit slow to satisfy those of us who want a robust racing sim also! :(
    • Agree Agree x 2
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  7. bsft

    bsft

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    @BlazinH , I am waiting for @eaorobbie to reply about his former boat winch motor full frame sim he had a few years ago. He will state that they can kick like mules.
  8. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    The reason I am skeptical @bsft is because we can’t change the fact that this winches motor is 220watts! While I realize that the formula Power = Voltage * Amperage is just an approximation, they have also stated the motor is .4hp when the math says it is .3hp. Nonetheless, 220watts is a specific measurement of power and cannot be made to be anymore or less than it already is with different gearing etc. Only its speed vs torque can be altered. When you can’t get enough speed and torque combined, all you can do is increase the wattage.

    I should note though that P = V * A is an approximation because motors have different efficiencies. Motors are notorious for being inefficient. So it is possible they have achieved a 25% increase from the standard.

    Another thing to note is that these winch motors should provide better motion than the same sized worm gear motor. There is a high amount of friction involved with worm gearing that is not prevalent in planetary gearing. But, with more gears involved in order to achieve the same reduction as worm gearing, more backlash a.k.a. noise is added as well!
  9. bsft

    bsft

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    the winch motor, yes is a 220-250 watt motor, but with combined gearing as is will pull 900kg.
    Bear in mind, most motors get overdriven 2.5-3 times rated current, so thats more like a 500 watt motor on it.
    My reasonable size worm gear motors are rated at 16 amps, and I throw 30-40 amps through them no problem.
    I think more could be done with winches and I know @Pit has had success as well as the former Aldoz, and @Historiker .
    I am just going off the word of @eaorobbie as he taught me.
    Cheers.
  10. bsft

    bsft

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    the winch motor, yes is a 220-250 watt motor, but with combined gearing as is will pull 900kg.
    Bear in mind, most motors get overdriven 2.5-3 times rated current, so thats more like a 500 watt motor on it.
    My reasonable size worm gear motors are rated at 16 amps, and I throw 30-40 amps through them no problem.
    I think more could be done with winches and I know @Pit has had success as well as the former Aldoz, and @Historiker .
    I am just going off the word of @eaorobbie as he taught me.
    Cheers.
  11. riton

    riton Active Member

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    power to speak beyond compare AC / DC I would say that 0.55kw and 30 RPM gives a very good result .
    500W

    obviously in a lot of videos the power lack.

    inertia is not compensated because not enough power.
  12. bsft

    bsft

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    which videos are you referring to please?
    • Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 1
  13. riton

    riton Active Member

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    the videos you have posted.

    mine not to mention AC motor, but just power are with 30 RPM and 0.55kw
  14. riton

    riton Active Member

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    I just compare the movements of the simulator.
    we know very well about the different videos puissnce the insertie, response time ....

    it's been 7 years since I built simulators that I make adjustments, I'm testing and I dissect the videos of the net!
    I begin to have the eye and habit.

    Even among professionals is often slow
  15. riton

    riton Active Member

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    This one is good


    This one is bad:
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    I agree: in the second video, we can see the nose of the car moving and no sim movements at all... too bad
  17. bsft

    bsft

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    and how many simulators have you built over the years then?
    Does that mean that everyone else's simulators here that are not AC motors and AMC boards are crap then? Because all you have done is state the specs of your simulator and claim its the best for overall simulation. I can read between the lines.

    EDIT: how many people have actually played on your simulators?
    Ive had about 80 people play on mine over the years, and thats kids, adults, and professional drivers.
    And that group includes people whom have paid to play on commercial units as well, then they have a go on mine.
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2014
  18. riton

    riton Active Member

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    I did not say that!
    you really have a problem!

    the performance is different
    and power missing is all.
    you just see that.


    and do not say it does as well as more powerful AC motors.
    what you said since the beginning of this conversation.

    I just wanted to show the real differences
    and highlight the differences.

    to talk money, I took several years to buy my engines, I saved my money for a long time to pay my engines, card....


    when I started with pneumatic cylinders and velleman card (7 years)
    I would have liked to have told me that the result was not great.
    I would have seen things differently and probably saved money.

    he should know that may have done otherwise.
    it's good to have different opinions and different perspective.



    I started with a pneumatic simulator.
    Then I tried a velleman card with AC motor.
    I also tried the wiper motors engine with JRK12V12

    Then I tried to improve my performance AC motor.

    I replaced the card with Thanos card, i have no knowledge at this time to make my card or schedule Ardruino cards

    Then I worked on the set.

    Now I make a type simulator "Force Dynamics" with my design and my research.
    7 years I look at all the videos on the Internet, I compare performance.
    and am working on the improvements of performance of my simulator.
    I tried professional simulators.

    all that to say look can be something other than wiper motor , SCN5. ...

    just by passion ;)
    • Like Like x 1
  19. bsft

    bsft

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    We are looking at something else instead of wipers, worm gears, SCN.
    Second time I must tell myself to leave this conversation, before it gets really out of hand.
  20. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    @riton, If you want to compare AC and DC powered simulators, then you should be comparing similarly powered AC and DC units. You keep comparing your larger AC motor powered rig with smaller DC motor powered ones. It’s a no brainer the results will be different yet you say,
    It’s like comparing a Porsche 911 to a VW Beatle and expecting to get the same results! Then when you don’t you act surprised and state,
    No duh!

    Here are some videos of my DC powered sim so you can make a proper comparison. Together, my motors total over 4kw DC power.


    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1