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Time for upgrade 2DOF to 6!!

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by poman, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. poman

    poman Active Member

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    Hello,
    I have succesfully built a 2dof with pololu JRK 12V and 2 old wiper motor. I am waiting my new metal rig frame so it is lighter than my old wooden one in order to put everything in motion as seen in youtube 13 Ply(not exactly, i play on a projector so no need to calculate the display weight). My set-up i wish to use (I.E. re-use) is my 2 JRK and buy 6 new motor and 4 JRK and 4 power supply, but my main concern is the 6 rods dimensions, i would like to have a compact and fairly low platform, it is in my living room and i am short, dont want to use a bench to climb LOL!!
    So if anybody have any advice, theyu are welcome!! or if you find one that have dimensions to fit DC motors, will be reading around here but in case i miss something...:)
    BTW my frame is a GTR simulator, cheap and they sell the frame only, since i had already the seat.
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  4. poman

    poman Active Member

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    Thanks Noorbeast, i had seen this one and yes this is pretty much what i had in mind, but i would like to not use the spring and i am willing to use Big worm motor instead to compensate for added weight, the ones at motion dynamics are looking great but i will have to try to find one closer to Canada, also wonder where i can find the articulated joints, i have bought them at Mcmaster-Carr previously, but they arent cheap, they wont ship to canada(had to go through problems) and the quality was dissapointing, i had a slack between the rounded part and the rod which is annoying. So if i am not mistaken, it is really possible to use simply JRK's 12V with big worm (seen the thread with prototype 6DOF), it is just the mecanical part that i dont know where else to buy. I also picked up the drawing from Wannabeaflyer which looks cool as well but it is missing dimensions.
    Tks again for anybody that will help me :)
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I would have to go back to the thread but I am pretty sure @zigzag49 did away with the spring assist.

    In Canada your best bet for motors would be these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEAR-MOTOR-...483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51bed470a3

    JRKs work well with these motors.

    These tie rod ends @Nick Moxley recommends come in a set of 4 at a bargain price : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs...ight-hand-tie-rod-end-bearing/1559309095.html

    A 6DOF DC powered rig will really push the motors hard. It may be wise to plan cooling for the motors, as @SilentChill did with his 6DOF: http://www.xsimulator.net/community...tors-mms-and-arduinos.6948/page-17#post-84194

    You could also consider adding gas struts to compensate for additional load, as @SilentChill did with his DC powered 6DOF rig, which may give some addition options in terms of design, axis range and load capacity.
  6. bsft

    bsft

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  7. bsft

    bsft

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    @poman , for 12v use, you best look at @merchan-e 6DOF or @SeatTime 6DOF. Both are 12v, granted some is arduino info, but the build info should help
    http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/prototype-6dof.5045/, uses wipers, so he must be doing something right, but its seat only
    http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/seattimes-6dof-dc-build.6106/ , uses 12v motors, but with custom actuators for lift.
    http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/6dof-project-using-12v-dc-motors-mms-and-arduinos.6948/ another 6 DOF build using 12v motors
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @bsft I recommended the Canadian 12V 50:1 motors as they are locally available for @poman, which work fine with JRKs, mention of @zigzag49's rig was about compact spring assist design, I did not suggest using 24V as he did.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  9. zigzag49

    zigzag49 Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes 24v these engines are 16 nm in any mobile it is imperative to a spring to compensate this lack of power, ideally see a bit more powerful to spend this spring.
    Unfortunately I will not be back on any mobile longevity because it has been amended seat mover, which is fine with me.
    An interesting thing is that compactness, a real gain Spot.

    During the day I will carry a video of the new system;)
    • Informative Informative x 2
  10. poman

    poman Active Member

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    TKS all for jumping in trying to help me, very nice of you!!!

    Hi BSFT !! me again !! good to see your always very active in the community!!

    Finally after giving it some toughts, I might be going more with a wider model to have bigger displacement for flight sim, i picked up a PDF from Wannabeaflyer which seems a pretty good design, just not sure of all the dimensions, might have to ask him if he would like to send me is CAD file if he has one, got access to CAD software with a friend

    So the E-bay motors are 50-60 NM capable, here is the weight detail:
    metal rig = 27 Kg
    T500 RS = 17 Kg (From the box)
    Car seat = 15 Kg (i guess)
    me so far = 77 Kg (and getting bigger by the minute LOL)
    Few accesories= 4 Kg

    Total = 140 Kg
    If i am right, it is about 2 times the weight, so i guess i should be OK considering the inertia when in motion? if it is not enough, i am willing to pay a bit more if you guys think it will be tight, i have about $2000.00 budget(overtime money) on this besides my oculus rift(or else) upgrade :)

    And about those rod ends, they ressemble more a ball joint for a car but i dont mind as long as they have enough angle travel, but i dont see that spec in the add, might have to ask...
  11. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I have not seen a working JRK based 6DOF/Stewart plateform. So I would recommend buying one motor and setting up a load test rig with the JRK that you already have. It is what I did and it saved me allot of money and time. Building a 6DOF is expensive enough (relative to other DIY Sims) as it is.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. poman

    poman Active Member

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    @SeatTime, why you say it saved you time and money, was it because you found out it doesnt work?? Please explain...tks
  13. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @poman Just my recommendation, FYI extract from an old thread of mine.

    loadtest2.jpg

    And an extract from my words at the time.
    Peaked out at 16kg with a 100mm arm, 19 kg with a 75mm arm. This is a 12vDC 200 watt motor with a 60:1 steel/brass gearbox.

    For lots of reasons including lack of travel, current limitation of JRKs, did not go down this route, ended up building my own actuators using 500mm ballscrews and in the end (had issues sourcing required motors) 12V 48amp motors with dual MM (basically 4 JRK driver chips) as drivers for each actuator.

    It is really your money/time, so your call, I just though that the JRK/200w motor setup may have worked, but would have been on the limits when you factor in weight of sim frame/steering wheel/friction/inertia etc. Not a risk in time/money I was prepared to take.

    Good luck with your build.
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  14. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Poman Wannabe here not sure which version of my development you have but i will try to Publish a more recent one with dimensions included , its done on my works PC so need to send a copy back to my home PC ( Using Autodesk Inventor 10 ... My Pockets aren't that deep LOL) i have some final dimension tweaks to make but should be able to post an update , i was always gonna publish the design here anyways so you sorta gave me a kick to get it done.. Cheers and as i mentioned feel free to adapt change and or improve at will :)
  15. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Poman just checked the file you may have downloaded and its indeed out of date and i believe they were just config options , so they were never built . the new drawings are based on what i now have as a working design ( Albeit No Controllers for the time being :-( ) but mechanically the testing i have done to date shows Promise with good movement and no clashing parts LOL .. Gimme a day or so to tidy them up and i'll stick the updated version on my Post if it will help ..
  16. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Guys did a quick update of the plans today , and will flesh them out with more details and dims over then next few days , so heres the 1st installment as it were ,, for any one interested i'll be updating these on my build Post :)

    Attached Files:

    • Winner Winner x 2
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  17. poman

    poman Active Member

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    Cant believe how fast you guys join the discussion!!! i didnt had time to PM wannabeaflyer and bam!!! there he is giving me what i ..only thought of asking...my god!! well very glad you did my friend!! tks a lot.

    now back to electric design...well well, JRK's wont make the run i suppose...gotta check if pricing of thoses MM's is lot more expensive than Jrk's, i payed 100.00 cdn back then, but they raised them to 130.00 cdn when i checked this week-end, if i need to go another route, then i have 2 jrk's for sale :)
    So if i go with arduino like many, the programming part scares me a bit, jrk's was veeeery simple!
    well, back to more reading :)
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  18. poman

    poman Active Member

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    So did some more reading for the MM's, found out it might be cheaper than pololu but there is a great difference of price between some places, range from 7.50 to 70.00(robotshop) each ???!!!
    I also would like to know if theses power supply will do and if i need one per MM's
    http://www.dx.com/fr/p/12v-30a-iron-case-power-supply-black-silver-ac-110-220v-125352#.VmwUB_kl-6Q
    But on the other hand, the motors i have been suggested are 180Watts, if a pololu giving 200watts isnt enough, then theses motors are no use i guess!! getting mixed up a bit there...doesnt take much lol!!!:)
    Tks again for help!!
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2015
  19. poman

    poman Active Member

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    well, i have been thinking about power management...lets say that thoses motors draw 20Amps and there is 6 of thoses...do i need to have a new circuit breaker in my electric panel(i was an electrician b4) and what size i would have to be? any of you guys had issues with that? i saw the 6dof from "Ply 13" who had an electrician install special panel for his rig.
    Tks
  20. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    If you were a electrician before, you should know what is required;). FI my new 6dof rig is on its own 15amp circuit.
  21. poman

    poman Active Member

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    Well, you are right LOL...but basicly i was wondering how much the hole thing draws during full motion. Tks :)
    BTW, i must suck at finding parts...cant seems to find where to buy Hall effect(contactless) pots for feedback?? any of you can point me a place please!!

    Also, i just finished reading the hole 21 pages of @SilentChill rig which is a great inspiration too, and he is saying that since he installed the gas shock to help relieve the weight, everything run cooler (less amps drawn too), so i wonder if i could still use the pololu i already have plus 4 other if i use gas shock too...your toughts @bsft ...you pololu master :)
    tks