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This really is so confusing?? I just dont know wot to use?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Gibbon, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. Gibbon

    Gibbon New Member

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    Hi all... Im getting my self really confused after searching and siving threw threads, i just do not know what the current best hardware is out there that i can use to build my frex or simforceGT sim?

    I promise you i have gone threw threads of a simular nature to this one, but they seem to have no real answers, so thought ill have a go! :happy:

    Ok, im not to up on what spec DC actuators i need, i know the basics, but i can find many on the net, but dont actually no if there any good, so my quistions are... and hopefully this post might help others searching the threads? :no:

    Im from the UK btw! :)

    1.Do we yet know wot the cheapest but good DC actuators and where to order them from?
    2.What othere hardware do i need as in controller PCB's ETC?
    3.Being in the UK.... is there a supplier or equivelnt ally profiling system the frex / simforceGT uses?

    and i think that would get me started?

    I know alot might roll your eyes, and im sorry, i just still after searching wouldnt know where to go and get the above? Or be 100% im getting the correct equipment! :(

    Appriciate your help, as i know your probem eithere working on your own projects.... or playing on them! :lol:

    Cheers
    Andy
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Hi,

    well, there is no best hardware or controller/motor config. It mostly depends on the application, means flying or racing sim, how many DOFs etc. And your budget of course.

    But as you tell us that you want to build a Frex/SimforceGT type simulator, then you have imho 2 options currently.

    1. Build Thanos AMC1.5 + motor H-bridge and connect them to wiper motors or similar, which is definatly the harder, as you have to prepare the motors (connecting encoders or multiturn pots) and solder the boards, but cheaper way.
    2. Wait until we have support for the SCN5 acutators with built-in controllers, which Frex uses as well. A test acutator arrived last friday. It will take some days, maybe weeks till they are supported in X-Sim still. But the SCN5 will cost you 400Dollar each excluding shipping. Good thing for most of you with SNC5 is, that you wont have to solder anything. In that case you would have to assemble only the raceframe including the racing seat.

    Regards
    Christian
  4. Gibbon

    Gibbon New Member

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    Hi Christian, cheers the quick responce, it is a racing sim im wanting to do and yeh i understand that there is not a best set up, probably a more economic setup would have described it better! :happy:

    I have looked into the wiper motor setup, and being a electrical engineer and PCB builder the soldering side and electronics shouldnt be a prob, so taking that out of the equation i am guessing the Wiper motor setup is probably the more efficient setup?

    Is the motor setup as good as the linear actuators? And what controller does frex use?

    And on that note, is there a specific motor we know of that has worm gears that i could just buy? Im trying (whilst having a budget in mind) to find the best setup to be able to just buy all the bits to build one? If you undertsand me?

    Also christian what setup do you use? are yours air actuators? If so would that be a easier option, are the actuators accessable?

    Thanks
    Andy
  5. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, SimAxe, SimforceGT
    Hi,
    More efficent than what...? In comparision with the SCN5: You can reach the same goal of a 2DOF Simulator with whipermotors and with the SCN5. Difference is the price and the time of work you have to spend.

    Christian´s simulator is SCN5-like. The actuators are cheap linearactuators as you can can find them for garage or dooropeners. They were made clever and fast with the smart Thanos H-Bridge and controller interface ;D

    I never sat in christians simulator or in a original Frex, but i think the realistic feeling is in both rockingchairs almost the same. Even, when the SCN5 actuators are faster, but i can only assume it.

    B.t.w. Where do you come native, UK?

    Kind regards
    René
  6. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Well, to be honest, we dont have that much experinces with many motor/acutator types.
    As we dont have access to a variety of motor types, and dont have the possibilities to buy plenty of different actuators and motors to determine the most reliable setup in comparance to its price, we cannot tell you much about other solutions.
    A setup with wipermotors will work, but the result will be likely on the same level like their price of approx 10Euro/motor. Yobuddy complained about freewheel issues, but this may be due to a lack of pivot balance perhaps. I hope he will tell us some more about this issue.

    My simulator has firgelliauto.com acutators (120Dollar) mounted. They are rated for 12V, and I drive them with 24V to get a reasonable speed of ~80mm/s. Not that much, if you compare it with 400mm/s of the Frex ones, but ok.
    Unfortunatly I haven't built it up completetly. Thats why I cannot tell you, if this setup is sophisticating in terms of overheating or wear of the plastic acme nut, which the leadscrewdrive consists of.

    Imho, if you are familiar with soldering, then you should build Thanos AMC1.5 and H-bridge. Then you will be able to connect any DC or servo motors on it, and experiment by yourself (but please regard the max current specs of Thanos DIY H-bridge, if you would like to connect big motors to it)

    I think wipermotors and firgelliautcom acutators are worth to use if the budget is low, but imho there is nothing better for simforceGt/simconmotion currently, as the SCN5. As well regarding the price of the SCN5 in comparance to other industrial high-tech actuators.

    There may be better solutions out there. Feel free to give us some suggestions.

    Depends on the application (lifting or rotating). Motors have freewheel issue when torque is applied to them, while linear actuator in most cases (depening inner screw pitch) rest in position, when not powered.

    Built-in controler with integrated encoder positioning. That's another pro for them, as most of our members are afraid of soldering irons and electronic issues^^
    The SCN5 will be plug-n-play, but expensive.

    Ask yourself: Would it be possible to simulate rumble with pneumatic acutators?

    Regards
    Christian
  7. Gibbon

    Gibbon New Member

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    Hi thanks for your replies, when i meant efficient, in terms of total cost, performance and relaibilty? But anyways, from what ive seen and read i dnot think there is a budget answer, you get what you pay for i suppose! :?

    Yeh ive looked at them, they do have a UK distributor it seems aswell, firgelliauto.co.uk but they dont have the same actuators listed, not as good! I presume ones with feedback are the better ones to have?

    The only UK ones i can find that seem to have a decent spec (unless im missing somthing) are at http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse ... uator&Ntx= ,A company i use alot at work!

    Yeh im from UK, midlands. You from germany? Im off to germany next fri for thr ring again! should be fun as allways! :clap:

    Hmm.. ill keep searching around and ill decide on somthing!

    Still looking for this nice profiling system alot use! Its no where to be found in the UK, might start manufacturing it! lol

    Cheers
    Andy
  8. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    The IAI acutators seem to be good as well. I think they could be similar to the SCN5. They have a built in positioning controller as well. But after some bad trials with motors, we wanted to try out the SCN5, as it is obvious that the work for our purposes.
    And it is really not easy to drive such intelligent acutators. Have a look on the termibus interface of the SCN5 to see it yourself.

    I dont know anything about the IAI acutators. Perhaps someone could find some info about their controller?

    Btw, it worries me that they marked it as Available Until Stocks Exhausted

    Well, it is easier for sure than having to place the feedback unit by yourself :D

    Regards
    Christian