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The in progress, Brig seat 1.3....

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by PaulB, Jul 12, 2018.

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  1. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    @JAD
    Axis 6 & 1 are good. Would need to use longer power cables any other way. they also have a different gear ratio. 4095 units = 57000 lines for 6 & 1. 4095 units = 38000 for 5,4,3,2. in DEScribe.
    Slight variation from your Diagram,
    limits 2.9.8.PNG
    YAT works fine to this. No unit conversion!? Why would it be going to full travel with an input of only p500? I'm not seeing where Yat works with 500mm I thought DEScribe would have set it to travel 4095~ Would there be a unit setting kept from other lines being sent earlier?
    YAT travel 2.9.8.PNG
    I'll go on with the list when I get this sorted.
    I would have never gotten through this. Thanks so much for the help!
  2. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    The machine zero of 100 looks too low for the hard limit of -255.
    If you home to the bottom limit switch, and if the machine then advances 100 to the machine zero, then a -255 from machine zero would be beyond the lower limit switch.
    This needs attention but wouldnt be the cause of current issues your getting now.

    YAT works fine to this. No unit conversion!? Why would it be going to full travel with an input of only p500? I'm not seeing where Yat works with 500mm I thought DEScribe would have set it to travel 4095~ Would there be a unit setting kept from other lines being sent earlier?

    Im not sure what you mean in the above.
    Im a bit puzzled as you mentioned in post 49 and and 59 that YAT was working fine for 500-580mm of travel.
    Are you sure you were achieving this by sending a p0 and P4095 command with YAT?
    We just need to get back to this point.
    I dont see P4095s100 in your shortcut list so I guess you were typing this manually?

    No unit conversion!?
    You showed me its entered in DEScribe so it doesnt need to be sent again manually using YAT
    When you entered the units values with DEScibe, are you sure the correct COM port was selected so that the 2 different setups got the correct values written to it?
    Sometimes windows mixes up com ports if the usb serial adaptors are generic clones.
    Can you also check that whatever values your entering in DEScribe is written to the device permanently and appears again when you download from device to be sure the values are locked in on power up. Especially check the units stays locked in.

    Why would it be going to full travel with an input of only p500
    I can only think the units ratio is incorrect, but again still puzzled why it was working in post 49 and 59.
    Can you check again the number of machine lines between limit switches using DEScribe. I mention a method to check this manually in my video.
    For 5,4,3,2, I am expecting a number a larger than 38000.

    I'm not seeing where Yat works with 500mm I thought DEScribe would have set it to travel 4095
    If P500 gives you full travel, then its wrong and we need to fix this before trying out Mover. We need P4095 to be full travel (between soft limits).

    Would there be a unit setting kept from other lines being sent earlier?
    Im not sure what you mean.
    If its set with DEScribe, we never have to enter units again.
  3. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    @JAD
    That took some doing. Chair is lifting to 4000 equally with all actuators. I think YAT was holding the unit setting somehow. now its 1 to 1
    How do you know the # of the posts? I don't see the #s.
    I'll start working on the previous post again. : )
  4. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    The post number is the # at the bottom right.

    Thats great you have them moving together.
    Now your ready to connect Mover

    With YAT, you just need to think of it as a typewriter sending text directly to the Kangaroo via the usb to serial adaptor.
    Its very manual and it wouldnt hold or send anything until you type it in and hit enter.
    The macro buttons are just a single click feature to send a bunch of typed text in one key press.
    So just check you dont have any left over units commands in the body of text in one of those macro buttons.

    And just for extra info on serial coms,
    when you hit enter key in YAT, it is sending the <13><10> which is the decimal equivelent of ASCII characters for carriage return and line feed.
    You dont type these in YAT because we have setup the connection as decimal so its expected that hitting the enter key will send these <13><10> characters.
    When it comes to mover, you do have to put in the <13><10> to send the carriage return and line feed.
  5. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    @JAD DEScribe settings are tuned again (and again..) to try to eliminate motor shake when the motors aren't moving.
    Any Ideas on different settings to eliminate this.
    ALL INPUTS.PNG CONTROL.PNG POSITIONING.PNG UNITS.PNG
  6. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    try increasing the position deadband on the control tab.
    It'll be trial and error to find the right value for your system
  7. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    @JAD Haven't been able to remove the motor shake completely, but I'm working on it.
    The rig shows some potential. Was using Yaw alone in LFS. Working well driving, till I went to change a setting in Mover, and rolled into the wall. That was a surprise! More energy in this than I thought!
    Need some filter. : ) Is there a post with some settings, I can start with. The ones I thought would work are a bit harsh. (already cut max speed in half, might cut it back so more.)
  8. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    I cant think of a particular post with starter settings. Try asking on Mover thread to get some suggestions.
    But any settings from another rig will not be useful for your setup. Different rigs respond very different to the same filters.
    It would work out better if you go through the trial and error process and build the settings yourself from scratch as its the only way to understand the effect of various settings and filters.

    Instead of cutting max speed, try only adjusting a smoothing filter like EMALP.
    If max speed is triggered all the time(if its low) then you can't feel the effect of changes in the filters.
    Try starting with a default filter on every dof like EMALP 100 or 200. And then drop it progressively by 25 at a time or 10 at a time as you get closer to best feel.
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  9. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Great advice, there's a lot to go through. Think all I needed was a starting point.
    Thanks for all the help. This would have taken me weeks longer to sort out, and not be setup as well.
  10. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Another step forward. Just need time to refine the tune. Next video will be driving. Mover is awesome!
    This is now running 3 12v power supplies on 1 plug. : ) (no difference adding 220 lbs.) Not fun driving with these settings. crashing, really not fun : )
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  11. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Well that was close. The weld broke under my seat while testing! Take a look at post #58. My rig wasn't that high off the floor at the time thank goodness. Just ended up on my back, staring at the sealing wondering what the f happened. Thankful for having a high back seat. All good now with an added gusset.

    close to racing. Still have issues with the encoders slowly losing there place and motor shake! Tried all kinds of settings. Any more ideas? I didn't think this would be that difficult to correct. : )
    thinking of going to an encoder with indexing. Think that's a good solution?

    Play Safe
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Ouch, that would not be fun, from any height!

    To save people re-reading the thread what encoders are you using and is it one or all of them that lose position?
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  13. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Thanks Noorbeast.
    Using a can type encoder 100 ppr on the motor shaft of wheelchair motors.
    Not sure if it's gradual or just when I hit a wall. Sorry, just put everything back together in the last couple of days.
    Encoder a-b 100ppr.jpg
    not sure if one or more are losing position. Been working on the motor shake issue.
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Perhaps run one at a time and see if you can pin the issue down.

    If it is all of them it could be settings or encoder issues. Perhaps try a Hall sensor if it looks like the latter.
  15. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    Good to see your getting closer.
    That encoder drift can be a tricky one to solve.
    Im speculating that it will be due to signal noise.

    Some things to try is to keep all the encoder wires away from any high current motor wires.
    And earth everything you can get at. I mean all the metal parts of the rig all connected back to earth, motor bodies, anything that can conduct. And use screened wires where possible.

    Screening and earthing to improve signal noise is bit of a mystery to me. Since most of us do not have the tools to measure noise it seems like a black art to me. So thats why I just go overboard with the earthing and screening to minimize noise being a problem.

    Signal noise is something I struggled with myself early on. I suspect its still happening now on one actuator but its a slow drift and re-homing every now and then resets the drift problem. For me, it only started to slow drift when Im doing short and sharp movements. ie a very rough off road surface in Dirt Rally.
  16. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    Im starting to understand why Barry Rowland (Sim Racing Garage) goes on and on about putting ferrite chokes on all sorts of cables.
    For a long time I thought all that was BS but Im starting to go that way myself. Still a mystery to me but Im going to do it anyway.
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  17. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Thanks Jad/Norbeast!
    Tried more calibrating and settings with DEScride again. No luck, still shaking at slow speeds.

    I have 2 chokes on each of my encoders. That really helped the drifting of a previous rig.

    Do the encoders you use have index? Mine don't. I'm hoping that switching to encoders with index will solve the drifting issue.

    As far as Hall Sensors go, I'd like to stay with encoders as I know nothing about the setup of Hall Sensors.
  18. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    @JAD
    Hi. Hope you don't mind Helping again! Finally getting some progression on the simulator. I've shielded wires and installed better resistors. Cogging seems to be reduced. : )
    So close, I'm through DEScribe tuning and settings.
    I have Yat working, but its homing to the wrong Limit switch. It was working fine before I corrected everything.
    Is there a setting on Yat that can be set to switch directions? Not see why it would change directions from DEScribe.
  19. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    Try swapping the polarity on the motor supply.
  20. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I can't do that. They are wheelchair motors.
    Everything was working in the correct direction. DEscribe, Yat and FlyPT. before I had the Cogging issue. I can't see what changed for YAT, from the last time I had everything working.