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The in progress, Brig seat 1.3....

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by PaulB, Jul 12, 2018.

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  1. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    ok then i will try it with 3 Motors.
    You missunderstood me with the Beamer i mean how do you project the picture to the screen.
    What kind of Projection. Rear projection? on Ceiling? What kind of Projector?
  2. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    : ) I'm using a LG pf1000u short throw. Works well, wanted it for 3d. The lag is really bad, so I'm going to 3 27 in monitors if the 6 motors work.

    Attached Files:

  3. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Another step closer. All 6 motors working with DEScribe. Now just sorting out FlyPT and Simtools with Encoders and Kangaroos. : )
    really need to paint my floor!
    P3120046.JPG
    • Like Like x 1
  4. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Well, now I'm lost again, and a bit gun shy. Had something messed up last time I did this, cost a few hrs in repairs.
    I have all the switches and power going in the proper directions (DEScribe). Now just to setup the Strings
    Is this close for encoders?
    Average about 6000~ pulses for the length of the actuator.
    This is close to the version of what was working with Simtools. just more Axis here!

    Binary, Int Loop 1, Serial speed 9600, Stop Bit 1, Data bits 8, Parity None.

    Start string: This is what I used to get the rig to home on my last rig.
    5,start<13><10>5,home<13><10>5,units4095=6000<13><10>4,start<13><10>4,home<13><10>4,units4095=6000<13><10>
    6,start<13><10>6,home<13><10>6,units4095=6000<13><10>1,start<13><10>1,home<13><10>1,units4095=6000<13><10>
    3,start<13><10>3,home<13><10>3,units4095=6000<13><10>2,start<13><10>2,home<13><10>2,units4095=6000<13><10>

    Output String Got the Rig moving to the Game
    5,p<Axis5a><13><10>4,p<Axis4a><13><10>
    6,p<Axis6a><13><10>1,p<Axis1a><13><10>
    3,p<Axis3a><13><10>2,p<Axis2a><13><10>

    Stop String 1,powerdown<13><10>2,powerdown<13><10> was my old powerdown Needed to add a command it bring the Chair back to the floor so I can get in.
    5,p300 s200<13><10>5,p300 s200<13><10>4,powerdown<13><10>4,powerdown<13><10> Might need to be p5700 or p300
    6,p300 s200<13><10>6,p300 s200<13><10>1,powerdown<13><10>1,powerdown<13><10>
    3,p300 s200<13><10>3,p300 s200<13><10>2,powerdown<13><10>2,powerdown<13><10>

    Any help would be great! Not sure how many people are running Fly PT, Encoders and Sabertooth Setups.
  5. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    I'll check again tonight but the first thing I see is that you have used motor numbers other than 1 and 2

    I have the below settings for the kangaroo.
    upload_2020-3-18_22-27-15.png
    For the kangaroo, you need send as decimal.
    The serial speed needs to match whatever you have set with the Describe software. The default is 9600 if you havnt changed it manually.
    You can only use motor number 1 and 2 for each command sent. All 3 serials are the same (except port numbers) and its only the axis ID num that changes according to your wiring hookup and rig orientation with respect to the way its defined in Mover.

    Did you find out the pulse count of 6000 by performing a tune? There are other ways to discover the pulse count for your actuators using Describe. Let me know if you need more info on this.
    If you are setting the units of 4096 to 6000 pulses, I just want to check you are sending 12 bit (4096) output in the Rig setup in Mover.

    Im using Describe beta ver 3.9. I had some trouble with ver 3.7 but I cant remember what the problem was.

    For your start string, keep in mind you would likely connect and disconnect Mover frequently while playing around with it so running the homing everytime will become tedious and is uneccesary.
    If like me in the early stages, and you are a bit nervous if everything is set correctly before connecting Mover or Simtools, I suggest using a separate serial terminal program to manually send these start and homing commands. It also gives you a chance to manually send position and speed commands one command at a time to test it doesnt run into limits and test the directions are all correct. This way you can be sure sending a pos 0 and pos 4096 gives you the actual operating range you want.

    You only need to run the homeing once on powerup. Its only when the power is reset that homing is needed again. Afer homing, you can powerdown without it losing track of the encoder position. Even if it backdrives. The moment you send a goto position command after powerdwon, it will drive there and hold position. No need to send start command again after powerdown.

    With your stop string, the whole line of commands is sent fully. The kanagroo will receive the goto position command first and a milli second later get the powerdown command so you wouldnt even notice it moving to position before it powers down. I went looking for a kangaroo command that would perform a wait command to insert between them but I dont think there is one. You need a separate serial terminal application to send these sort of commands and perform waits between these commands. Ive done that myself which I can explain in a separate post using FoxTerm.
    But for this early stage, I would recommend you manually do the start string and stop string. I played around with a few serial terminal programs. YAT Terminal worked well for me for testing.

    For getting the rig to park for getting in and out, its best to set in Mover the Default/Home position(I call it park position) in the Rigs tab. Mover does a smooth transition from Park to running position. If we set a different position in the stop string and not match it precisely in Mover park position, when it connects you get a sudden jolt to the running position if there is a mis match. For me, I leave Mover park position in the middle (ie 0mm) and just send all my start and stop stuff manually. My rig backdrives when powerdown so I prefer not to powerdown everytime I disconnect Move

    I talked about Mover in all the above text and its the same situation for us with Simtools if you were using that alone.

    Let me know if you get stuck anywhere.
  6. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Well-Known Member

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    do you mean the projector lags behind the real action

    are you mounting it above the screen ? how do you get the image to draw correctly with the projector being so close to the screen ? do you use software to do this

    is the lag coming from the software ?
  7. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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  8. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    that is a neat projector, i guess the lag is caused by it processing the image to make it look correct on a tilted screen

    you cant beat a projector if you have enough space and the ability to darken the room
  9. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Decimal, Int Loop 1, Serial speed 115200, Stop Bit 1, Data bits 8, Parity None ??

    I have the Tune Numbers from DEScribe for all of the Axis.
    Is this getting closer? I'll add the 4095=####
    Getting it close to the ground would be a nice to have, feel like I'm into a race car! I think it might be easier to get into with the seat higher up
    I like the idea of a Serial Terminal Program! I did't know the Kangaroo held it #s.

    I'm thinking I could have separate homing for start and when the encoder looses count. Not sure if I fixed that with adding cable cores to the encoders.
    Then another that could bring the rig to a holding height, and one to shutdown.
    If you could suggest one we could work on the same program, I might be able to come up with something that could help you someday! : )
    I'm hoping to put in a page setup for updating that's for FlyPT, Simtools, Serial Terminal Program, DEScribe, Encoders, Kangaroos and Sabertooth.
    So the next time I do this it will be less to remember. Piece of mind doing this is a good thing

    With Serial Terminal Program
    No Start string
    1,p<Axis5a><13><10>2,p<Axis4a><13><10>
    1,p<Axis6a><13><10>2,p<Axis1a><13><10>
    1,p<Axis3a><13><10>2,p<Axis2a><13><10>
    No Stop string

    Without
    1,start<13><10>5,home<13><10>5,units4095=####<13><10>2,start<13><10>4,home<13><10>4,units4095=####<13><10>
    1,start<13><10>6,home<13><10>6,units4095=####<13><10>2,start<13><10>1,home<13><10>1,units4095=####<13><10>
    1,start<13><10>3,home<13><10>3,units4095=####<13><10>2,start<13><10>2,home<13><10>2,units4095=####<13><10>

    1,p<Axis5a><13><10>2,p<Axis4a><13><10>
    1,p<Axis6a><13><10>2,p<Axis1a><13><10>
    1,p<Axis3a><13><10>2,p<Axis2a><13><10>

    1,powerdown<13><10>4,powerdown<13><10>
    1,powerdown<13><10>2,powerdown<13><10>
    1,powerdown<13><10>2,powerdown<13><10>

    This help is getting me into the rig so much faster
    Thanks so much!
  10. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    The projector has a very distorted lens and mirror to get the projection on the screen.
    The screen is so close I can use it with the lights on. Better with the lights off and a black screen behind it though.
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  11. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Forgive my inexperience in all things programming.
    The advice to run a Serial Terminal program potentially adds the control to my Rig I'm looking for!
    All I need to do now is add it in.
    Should probably start a new discussion, but here it goes.

    Is what I'm going with so far. If there is a more common or better program, don't hesitate to correct anything I write.
    This is my first hr. into this so there will be mistakes.
    Using the "Serial Data Terminal 1.00" So far I see this working as one screen for each of the com ports to the Kangaroos, and a virtual com for each command that will send code to each of the com ports at the same time.
    So, I would use "Serial Data Terminal 1.00"at startup to home the rig.
    Then starting the game would take over control of the com port to the kangaroos.
    When the game is stopped I'm hoping I can either tell the rig to home, lower, hold position or powerdown as needed using the "Serial Data Terminal 1.00"

    Hope this is somewhat correct
  12. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    You could try YAT
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/y-a-terminal/
    There are many apps that pop up if you search for 'serial terminal' and they all do the job to some degree and I found YAT is arranged in a way that makes it a bit easier.

    Im not using YAT now as Ive moved to FoxTerm but I still suggest YAT in this setup phase.
    Im going by memory and I dont have any screenshots of how I setup YAT myself but let me know if you struggle with it and I'll have a go a re creating what I did.
    And this was the first time for me dealing with serial terminals programs so Im happy for anyone else to jump in with further suggestions on all this.

    The features of YAT that are useful :
    - Setup 3 separate terminals (separate windows) within YAT that each connect to the 3 kangaroos. It is more convienent to select each terminal and connect and disconnect quickly.
    - For each terminal, there are a bunch of macro buttons next to it that you setup with defined command strings. So you would put start, home, goto position or any combo commands in these macros. This cuts out a lot of the repetitive typing.

    After your comfortable with it and running Simtools and Mover with confidence, I then suggest trying out FoxTerm.
    FoxTerm allows running the exe with parameters to launch and auto run macros that will connect, run commands and disconnect, and after completion, it closes everything including the Foxterm app.
    I made a variety of these shortcuts and pinned them in the windows start menu for easy access.

    The next step I did was to use spare buttons on my logitech shifter to run these FoxTerm shortcuts. So now I only press a button or two to get going.
    I used JoyToKey to bind the joystick buttons to run the shortcut exe's.
    And the finishing touch is to get JoyToKey to auto start when windows boots up.

    Wont be long before you can add a coin slot and start charging!

    Let me know if you get stuck anywhere
    Cheers.
  13. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    I just want to point out that you still need to set the units parameter somewhere.
    Just in case with our discussion above that you miss including it somewhere now that we are not using the start and stop strings.

    To save yourself doing it manually or including it in the macros, you can set it permanently in the kangaroo using DESCribe.
    Its baked in this way so it sets the units on powerup.
    Its handy not having to think about setting this parameter evertime you startup.

    An alternative is to put it in start string for Mover or Simtools. No harm if this is sent repetitively on every startup of Mover/Simtools.
  14. Wojtek12

    Wojtek12 never say never

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    Amazing design, great respect for such a project
  15. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Thanks Jad for the help, Again. If I didn't have help, the learning curve would be to steep and I think I would just go back to an earlier design. that I would'n have finished without help from Xsim and others.

    You were talking about putting in a coin! I was thinking about putting 2 or three rigs on a trailer and renting it out for parties : )

    Yat it is! Sounds like it will be perfect for everything I need. Going to look at that today. So close to racing again!
  16. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    @JAD Getting a little closer!
    Take a look when you get a chance and tell me where things are off.
    Just remember my Rig is upside down to most other hexapods!
    Man, this is allot to get through.

    Attached Files:

  17. tomkil192

    tomkil192 Member

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    Great rig. Something completly different. I cant wait to see the videos with this rig flying
  18. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    Just having a quick look and reply at them moment
    I'll reply again with a more detailed reponse tonight.
    Our timezone difference may make it a bit slower to get through this sorry.

    In output string, you would have
    1,p<Axis1a><13><10>2p<Axis2a><13><10>
    replace the Axis number for whatever is applicable for your setup for each output.

    With the units in the start string, it can only be 1 setup for both motor channels, so it would be just
    units4095=600<13><10>
    that would read as, set an input range of 4095 to be mapped to 6000 encoder lines.
    But I see you have a wide variety of encoder line ranges, some around 6000, some around 9000.
    I presume each actuator is built the same and cable lengths and angles are roughly the same so I would guess you should have the same range of encoder lines for each.

    I also see that units input range is 4095, but your rig output is set to 10 bit which is only 1023 range.
    Set the output to 12 bit to match the 4095 range of your units setup

    In regards to being upside down rig, we can compensate for this by wiring the positive and negative power supply to the motor correctly and wiring the encoder correctly so that all position commands will result in the expected direction.
    This is best verified by using the tools in DEScribe

    To help me troubleshoot further, let me know where you are up to in the setup.
    Before trying to connect with Mover, are you able to drive the actuators to any position desired by typing commands into a serial terminal (like YAT) or with DEScribe application?
    This will help me understand where you are at.
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  19. PaulB

    PaulB Titanium2dof

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    Really appreciate this!

    Sorted out all the switches and directions in DEScribe to get the unit4095=####s

    looks like the #6 and #1 motors have a different gear ratio, so the 9000~

    Corrected the Output string, I think.
    When I was using simtools I was using this at Start string
    1,start<13><10>1,units4095=19635<13><10>2,start<13><10>2,units4095=19448<13><10>
    to input different. I like the

    Haven't had time to work with Yat, think I'll do that when I get the Rig to move : )
    It works if the rig drops or homes.

    Rig now set to 12 bit.

    I'll take a look tomorrow where I can enter type command into DEScribe 3.9.1.

    Do I take the Hard and Soft limits off? Redid the Rig using hard limits. (No limit switches) I guess the rig has more torque than I thought. Went back to limit switches! : )

    Thanks again for all the help

    Should I be using the FlyPT 1.0 in simtools?

    Attached Files:

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  20. JAD

    JAD Active Member

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    To answer your last question first, yes, but I dont think you are up to that point yet.
    The first test with Mover would be to do a gentle cyclic motion.
    Then the next step is to connect to a game source directly with Mover, and then next is to use Simtools as a source for Mover where necessary.

    I noticed that you removed the start and home commands from the start string. So you will need to do this manually before you connect Mover.
    But you mentioned you havent tried YAT yet (and I guess no other serial terminal app yet) but now Im not sure if you have covered this aspect some other way.

    I still recommend you get accustomed to driving the actuators manually through a serial terminal app.
    It will give you confidence that all commands work as expected by checking one motor at a time.
    I also recommend locking in the units command in the kangaroo itself so its automatic when it powers up.
    You asked about soft and hard limits but I wouldnt connect to mover yet until you are sure this is all setup correctly. Once again, manual testing will resolve this
    It would be troublesome to jump into Mover without being sure it all works.
    And to be honest, its difficult to help getting Mover going unless Im sure these things are understood. Sorry to be pedantic.
    We really need confidence the Kangaroo is setup and limits are setup before connecting Mover.

    I'll do a quick video run through on my system and I'll cover these sort of things.
    I'll try for an overview and then you can ask me about any specific aspect to elaborate on.
    It might take me a night or 2 to come back to you.

    Could we get a few more pictures of your setup? Just thinking it may help me describe things as they apply to your setup.
    In particular I'd like to see the overall winches + encoders + limit switches and a stand back photo of the whole thing to see the cable angles and lengths connecting to the rig.