Step by Step... approaching to Thanos work.

Hi Ray,

You might need to reinforce more the long tubbings in case you try to add more weight to the standard joyrider design. Otherwise you will see much bending on the cymbals. I'd suggest metal supports, or use metal tubbing (with less diameter of course). It depends of how easy is for you to work metal parts and use the right tools, to make it more rigid!

And there is not only the static load of the LCD's but also the dynamic load (mass inertia) that add's up during motion. Bouncing effect during sudden pitch motion will be introduced and it may became annoying. On the other hand a small bouncing rate will help you pass in the motion a percentance of heave vibrations!!!

Good luck on your project! :

Regards, Thanos

hola,
hace poco descubri esto de los simuladores hechos en casa y la verda
esque estoy pensando en hacer uno.
tengo varias dudas y me seria de gran ayuda si me las pudieses solucionar.

la primera es sobre el tamaño del simulador. el ancho y lo largo que es.
Tambien viendo la web de thanos en la seccion de pvc, ha hecho un esquema
de los cortes pero dice ke las medidas estan en milimetros, cosa que me
extraña.

por ultimo el tema de la controladora que hay que hacer para procesar la
informacion. ¿Por cuanto sale esta ultima parte? y tmben si ay alguna otra
posibilidad.

espero no aberte agobiado con tanta pregunta, gracias de antemano..

Buenas gbarrena...

(Sorry about talking in spanish, dudes, if anyone is interested about it, i will translate the important parts.)

Bienvenido al foro, lo primero.

Vamos por partes:
El cacharro es grande. Y grande significa que si sumas el largo de la pieza más larga (159 centímetros) y le sumas unos 40cm más por cada lado, te sale al menos 2 metros y pico de largo por al menos 1,70 de ancho. De alto, más o menos 1,60.
Si estás pensando en meterlo en una habitación pequeña... cuidado.

Las medidas efectivamente están en mm, pero deberían ser en cm. Cuando compares los largos de Thanos con los largos de los planos originales del Joyrider para seguir la construcción te darás cuenta.

Te recomiendo que los cortes no los hagas de forma manual porque cada centímetro cuenta... y aunque tengas un pulso firme luego no encajarán como deben. (Te lo digo por experiencia).
Por cierto, los anchos de algunos tubos deberían ser más gruesos. Si lo haces como las fotos de Thanos tendrás que reforzar algunas partes después como él.

**** Thanos: Help us. This guy is following your PVC parts map (placed at your site), but the sizes are in mm when they must be in cm. He asked me about it, but the common sense says it must be cm (You can try it in milimeters, but you will get a Super-mini joyrider for your pet!!!)
****

La controladora:
Son dos circuitos diferentes.
1- El interface
2- El puente-H
Para el interface no hay alternativa, lo siento. Si tienes una insoladora te saldrá muy barato, si no, tendrás que conseguir que alguien te haga el circuito impreso, y eso no se cuanto cuesta, la verdad.
Para el puente-H hay algunas cosas, pero lo más barato de nuevo es hacerte tú el tuyo según los planos de Thanos. Las otras alternativas son en plan Pololu (mira mis posts anteriores) y los Parallax's HB-25 entre otros.

En fin, solo comentarte que tengas paciencia porque es un proyecto grande, pero toda la documentación está por aquí y hay un montón de gente dispuesta a ayudar.

Un saludo.
knob2001.

muchas gracias por resolverme las dudas, la verdad es que el simulador no parece tan grande en los videos jajj!
habra que pensar donde meterlo y sobre todo combencer a mis padres...

Podrias decirme decirme el tipo de pvc que deberia usar para cada parte y cuanto comprar???
Tambien necesitaria que me aclararas el problema que tuviste cn las juntas de los angulos. Por lo que entendido es que no tenias para el grosor del pvc??

Hi Knob2001,

Myself and a friend have got together to start building the exact same sim ad you and Tonic has, except that we will be building ours from 50mm square tubing metal. What I would really like to ask you however, is just a 2 line explanation of how the electronics fits together. In other words, I have a PC with a game on it, which connects to some kind of interface, which then goes to another interface that drives the motors, or something like that? I have downloaded all the PCB's for Tonic's AMC controller, and have a relative good understanding of how the Atmega chipset works, etc, but would just like to get a clear overview of all the components involved end to end, to make sure I have everything. We will probably start building some time this week, and put up a project page as well as soon as it's kicked off

Thank you very very much, looking forward to your reply!

Hi...

gbarrena -> (Spanish again... sorry) Me imagino que tendrás los manuales del Joyrider, ¿verdad? Yo lo que hice fue hacer los cortes como tronicGr tiene en su página y luego tirarme un buen rato marcando cada pieza.
El tipo de PVC es de presión, es un poco más gordito que el normal, y creo que bastante más oscuro. Debe poner por algún lado la cantidad de Bar que puede soportar, y eso te dirá la presión a la que se le puede someter.

El tema de los diámetros... si te fijas en el cacharro de tronicGr, verás que tiene unas barras laterales para fortalecer la estructura. Yo seguí su consejo y compré los tubos para esa parte más anchos, y así que me ahorré el tener que fortalecer.

El problema que tuve con las juntas no fue con los grosores, sino con las juntas que encontré. Al pasar de cierto diámetro, las únicas juntas que pude encontrar después de ir a un montón de tiendas especializadas fue del tipo A-B (entrada-salida) y no A-A (entrada-entrada). Por eso tuve que recortar casi todas las piezas para que casaran por el lado de salida. Entrada significa que la junta se introduce por dentro de la tubería, y salida significa que la junta abraza por fuera la tubería.

Bueno, cualquier pregunta estoy por aquí antes o después...

Hi, watkykjy...

Be prepared for some hard work, dudes!... and be patient, specially on the first steps.
As i've said in spanish to gbarrena, take a look to the tronicGr's joyrider. The inside frame has a reinforcement (two metal tubes). You can get rid of those additional tubes choosing the tubes with a little more diameter (just the tubes for the inner frame). I did it, and i can say that on those tubes relays almost all the weigth... of your body and whatever you mount on it.

The diagram on the wiki explains everything:


You can use one computer for the profiler, or let one computer run everything (there's an option in the profiler to use one core of your multi-core processor for that).

In our case, the profiler takes the data from the sender, and then send the processed data to the AMC, then the AMC sends the data to the H-Bridge who makes the motors move. So... i don't know if you see the whole picture, but in fact is something small. PC->SENDER->PROFILER->AMC->H-Bridge->Motors->AMC

There's a feedback data using the pots or whatever you use to read the motors positions.

You can start from whererever you want, but the joyrider needs more physical effort than the AMC.

Just remember about the tubes of the inner frame... and about the Joints, i couldn't find the A-A version i needed, just the A-B version. The A-A version has the same on both sides. The A-B has an input and an ouput instead of two inputs. I had to cut all the tubes facing the ouput-side of the joint becouse the length wasn't the same as for the input.

Remember that tronicGr built it with the materials availabled around his home... it won't be easy to find exatly the same as him around your place! I advice you to be prepared to apply some workarounds to get the same effect but with different parts. Imagination is the word for this proyects... or you will be stuck again and again.

Regards
Knob2001

Hi!

Some updates... after a very long time. Let's see if i can finnish it on the next year!

Finally i found the belts i was looking for. The brand is optivelt, and the catalog is here:
http://www.optibelt.de/fileadmin/bilder ... DFs/VB.pdf
Those are the perfect one for my pulleys, and the best of all, they are cheap (12€ each) and very easy to find. There are a lot of different lenghts. In my case, 2735mm the longest and 2530mm the small one.



Choosing the right lenght of the belt is crucial to keep it tighten. This is how it seems in my joyrider:


So... i have both axis prepared, the pulleys, the belts, the motors mounted... but my pc broke without notice :? :? :?
I had to change my HD becouse bad sectors, and then, when i reinstalled everything, the x-sim2 profiler refused to load on xp3 sp3. And then... one of the data of the feedback pots dissapeared from the lcd (not 0 data, just nothing). I think there's something wrong in the 8535, but i'm a little worried becouse i've checked all the volts and they seem ok on all the pots but the second. I've tried the calibrating firmware and it shows three pots running but the second remains on 0 (blinking) This is the ATmega with the cal. firmware running: (notice the p blinking on the second pot)


For the end, just an updated picture of my project taken today. I've mount another frame to allow the Y motor be inside the tube instead the outside. Things became a little unstable the way i began, so i changed it some time later.


Some more news in following days.
Regards
knob2001
:

It is mm ... but I refer to the diameter of the tubes... not the length!!! :lol:

Hi...

Are you sure about that?
This is your img:


If the tubes are 3m long... it means 300cms, so the first tube for example: one tube of 159cm and another of 71cm (or 1590mm and 710mm). Of course D90 means 90mm diameter.

This is the quote of your place:

Mmmm... or maybe i'm misunderstanting everything... :? :? :?

Regards and happy new year, btw. :
knob2001

Hey mate!

Happy new year! I just had a look at your hall sensors and the setup of your entire sim and it looks GREAT! We are following very close behind you. We should finish the mountings for the screens today, but because it's new year, we can't find an open shop to get the fan belts for the motors.... We will unfortunately go live with the potentiometers as feedback for now, simply because we spent the entire day yesterday making the new motor mounts and stuff for the pots, but I will definitely look at converting to the hall sensors ASAP!

Thank again for all your help and guidance on this, it's really appreciated, and I look forward to challenging you to an online game soon!

Cherio's

Johan

@knob2001 & tronicgr

Did either of you consider using a sprocket and chain instead of the wire rope and engine belt for your joyrider? If you did consider it, could you share the reasons why you decided against using it (cost, noise, etc...)?

Regards,

NavyGator

Hi, NavyGator...

I don't know why TronicGr didn't use the chain, but for me, mainly is for the way you tighten it. Remember our project is based on those pre drilled shelves. i didn't want to spend time doing the calculations to match the shelve's holes with the holes needed to attach the sprocket, and remain the whole thing very tigth.
Also, the catalog of the belts i've posted before has almost 100 different lenghts. I have never worked with chains, but i guess you have to cut it with the chain-breaking tool... too much for me
The weigth is another positive point for the belt. The noise, the need to keep it lubricated... seems something a little bigger for my project. And talking about the price: 5€ pulley + 11€ belt. I don't know how much will it cost the chain and the sprocket, but it was easy to find the pulleys and the belt.

Of course, the easiest way was with the iron cable, but as TronicGr said, he had some problems keeping it tighten. The belts are meant to be used exactly for what we are using them.

Regards.
Knob2001

In my experience, chains have slack. The longer the chain, the more the slack. On one length, it's very very small, but multiplied by many, it can be much larger.

Hi...

A little info about my project actual status:
I have ordered a new sets of PCB (AMC + Dshb) to Platinenbelichter for a friend.

This is the mail i sent as suggested by egoexpress:

Don't forget to attach the pdf's files!

The cost: 33,40€ shipping to Spain included. Not too expensive... if you don't have the time to do it from scratch (my case). This is the first time i order PCBs, until today i managed to do it by my self. Anyway, i think you can use the mail above if you want a brand new one PCB.

One question:
Are you, joyriders builders, placing the pots or the hall sensors on the caster of each axis or on the pulley attached to each motor?
I've noticed (too obvious, in fact) the number of rounds the pot has to do is much bigger when attached to the pulley instead of on the caster. This could result on a better resolution (is not he same 1/2 round of a 10 rounds that 1 1/2 round of the same 10 rounds)

The first of February i will post my last message about the joyrider as that date is the dead line i've put (me and my family) to finnish this project... then i will try to complete the wiki tronicgr began some time ago (i think i owe it to this forum). The next week i'll put some videos of the movement of my joyrider.

Regards
Knob2001

Well, this text smells like the output of a bad translation machine, and is definitely not my template.
You can find my template here:
pcb-etching-service-t710.html#p9423

regards

Hi!...

Yep, the german part is not part of your template, egoexpress. I thought it could be a good idea becouse the limited english of this guy (as a courteous gesture). What i did was translate via google exactly the words you suggested on that post. Sorry if the german part is so weird and...
NOTICE for everybody: The german parts are not written by egoexpress, but me and google algorithms.

Anyway, the message was received and processed very quickly. Seems someone very proffesional. I'll post some pictures of both boards as soon i receive them.

Regards
knob2001

Hi!...

Instead of using the max232 from the avr, i'm trying to use a FTDI usb i had one for test pourpose from an older proyect (i think it's the one tronicGR showed us in one of his post... but i can't remember where is that post).
The problem i have is that although i can communicate with the avr thru terminal (i can change the kp and store it on the atmega without problems) as soon as i connect it to the profiler, and send some movement with the test pluging of the force sender, the avr reboots again and again - sometimes throwing a lot of garbage on the screen and sometimes refusing to load the firmware right- I've been playing with the ms and the more ms the more the garbage delays to show. So...

As the manual says, i'm using the \\.\COM3, and the FTDI has activated the serial printer option for compatibility. Also, the string i'm sending is the one that comes with the profiler: AB~255~~a01~~a02~

What i see at the output of COM1, COM3 and \\.\COM3 is this:
COM1:#41#43#FF#58#93#41#43#FF#58#92#41#43#FF#5A#92#41#43#FF#5A#91#41#43#FF#5B#91
COM3:#41#42#FF#58#93#41#42#FF#58#93#41#42#FF#58#92#41#42#FF#5A#91#41#42#FF#5B#91

Notice that there are small differences between both at the same time (captured with two sniffers). So...

The difference are small, and not so important as the string parse is the same format: AB X-VALUE Y-VALUE and them remains the same. (In this example the COM1: is (42) AB~255~~a01~~a02~ and the COM343)AC~255~~a01~~a02~ to difference them, i'm not sending AC to the avr)

I run out of ideas...

Btw, i'm connecting the FTDI GND to the GND pin of the TX pin of the AVR and the FTDI TX to the TX of the AVR, remaining the Vcc, (middle pin) of the AVR disconnected. 5v are delivered by the FTDI...

Regards.
knob2001

Muy buenas knob2001

Despues de mucho tiempo he decidido montarme la cabina con movimiento y justo me encuentro con este increible hilo.
Antes de nada felicidades por tu trabajo y sobretodo por compartirlo con todo el mundo

De electronica se lo justo (IOcards y poco mas) y hay varias dudas antes de iniciar el proyecto que me gustaria me resolvieras.

Has encontrado todo el material en España? Hay alguna pieza en concreto que deba pedir a otro pais?
He leido que te ha costado encontrar alguna medida en concreto de tubo de PVC... como lo solucionaste?

En cuanto empiece supongo que te asaltare con mas preguntas jejejeje pero ahora de momento quiero reunir el material

Gracias!

Saludos

Hola Oscar,

Estoy a punto de comenzar la parte electrónica, a la espera de recibir las placas que he comprado a un compañero de este forro.

Puedes decirme por favor,en que tienda has comprado el PVC, sobre todo el de 90 mm?, vivo muy cerca tuya, en Móstoles.


Por otra parte hay una cosa que no entiendo muy bien, los sensores son para sustituir a los potenciometros (ollas), o estoy equivocado ??

Un saludo,


Hi Oscar,

I'm about to start the electronic part, waiting to receive the PCB I bought a fellow of the liner.

Can you tell me please where you bought the PVC store, especially the 90 mm?, I live very near you, in Móstoles.


On the other hand there is one thing I do not understand very well, the sensors are to replace the potentiometers (pots), or am I wrong?

Regards,