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Question Starting a FFB wheel build. Need help with components choice.

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by porosenoq, Apr 26, 2020.

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  1. porosenoq

    porosenoq New Member

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    Hello guys,
    I'd like to introduce myself first as I am a new member. My name is Rosen and I am from Bulgaria. I've been actively racing online years ago, but now with all that pandemic related isolation things I went back to it after a long pause. Unfortunately I've sold my G25 long time ago and I was doing some laps in LFS with mouse. I am bored after a few days, cause I want some realistic feeling etc. Descent wheels are expensive and I started reading about building my own wheel. I already had a look at most of the builds here and I get the basics, but I know almost nothing about electronics. I need help with choosing the electric components in my future build.

    As far as I know so far the basic components that I need, beside the mechanical ones are:

    -Motor,
    -Motor driver,
    -Power supply,
    -Encoder,
    -Arduino or something else to control everything

    Please correct me if I am wrong or if I've missed something.
    I already found a motor from an old cordless drill. There is not much info on the motor itself, but the drill had a label saying its 18v - that is all I know (So is the motor rated 24v?). I now plan to buy motor driver and an Arduino Leonardo board as it is on a reasonable price here and I could not find a local supplier offering the STM32F407 board that I know is a good option for DIY Wheels. What I want to ask you is what motor driver do I need for this motor ? How much amperes it needs to support ? I've found a Cytron MD13S rated at 6-30V 13А - it is 11 Euros, but I don't know if it is not an overkill for this motor that I plan using. I've also found some 2-3 Euro motor drivers that are rated at about 1A - will they do the job ?

    I plan on using some pulleys to increase torque, but I will need help with calculating their size/diameter - please help with that too. Also about the encoder - how much PPR do I need ? How is PPR related to wheel degrees of rotation ? What actually determines the degrees of rotation the wheel will support ? Is it the encoder ?

    I am also planning to build pedals - please tell me what pots are best to use, rotary or sliding ? What specifications the pots need to have ?

    Thanks in advance for your help. I am looking forward for your advice so I can start building. I already have some mechanical stuff prepared, but I need to consider the electronics too to keep going.
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. porosenoq

    porosenoq New Member

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    Hello again guys,
    I've been doing some research and gathering some parts the last few days, and I just came back to give some updates on my progress. I've used mainly things that I already had around me. The only thing that I bought is an arduino leonardo and some jumper cables. I've found a broken printer HP DeskJet, don't remember the model as the only thing that I wanted from the printer was the encoder. The rest is literally things I've found in my closet. I didn't even use almost any tools, as I am in the apartment now and I don't have anything here. I've also prepared some mounts for pedals, awaiting for some linear pots to arrive along with some rod end bearings (rose joints/heim joints)

    Here are some pictures of what I've came up with and a video demonstrating the wheel working in LFS.
    Everything is still a proof of concept and is yet to be reworked to have a nice look and everything.

    What will follow is the implementation of FFB, but I want to ask you if I would be able to use a NEMA 34 motor with the arduino and some motor driver, using the same encoder I use now ? I already have some DC motors, but I don't really want to use DC motors and pulleys. I can get a brand new Nema 34 for around 65 Euros. The question is - Am I going to be able to controll it with the arduino its self and a motor driver + encoder or I would need something more advanced and precise ? How much amps does the motor driver for the NEMA 34 need to have ? And how much amps of power supply do I need for this motor ?

    Attached Files:

  4. porosenoq

    porosenoq New Member

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    Could not upload the video in my previous post. I am sorry for posting a new reply, please if mods consider it necessary, combine my last two replys.

  5. elnino

    elnino Active Member

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    Some great resourcefulness there!

    You cant really use stepper motors, they are not designed to be used like we want.

    If you want to avoid gears and pulleys you can make a dd wheel pretty easy. Look at my1020 in eithier 24 or 48v. The 48v one will give slightly more torque for less amps. Pair that with some ibt_2 drivers, attach a wheel and off you go! You'll need a decent power supply though. I use hp server power supplies dps800. My wheel can pull 60a pretty easily.
    20200413_152542.jpg
  6. diggumwood

    diggumwood New Member

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    You'll need a decent power supply though. I use hp server power supplies dps800. My wheel can pull 60a pretty easily.
    73761 [/QUOTE]
    Do you not have any trouble with the motor heating up? How is your electricity bill doing?
  7. elnino

    elnino Active Member

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    It warms up but its not pulling that sort of current all the time, just in extremes for short bursts. it has a 120mm fan drawing air through for cooling.
  8. Jamil Muhammad Irahad

    Jamil Muhammad Irahad New Member

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    What voltage are you giving the motor and what torque figures are you getiing?
  9. elnino

    elnino Active Member

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    12v, not sure on the torque but plenty of info here. Anything over 75% is painful though.
  10. porosenoq

    porosenoq New Member

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    A little bit of an update... Despite I had hell a lot of other work to do I've been slowly collecting some parts and stuff for a simillar concept to your wheel:

    IMG-19aee33966d6c5b6cd2e3717f4d6e077-V.jpg IMG-036dbc49a53d8294ddeec46a64cdc4f4-V.jpg IMG-91b0d436dae20fc09d37544aebe11a8c-V.jpg IMG-4112b68a1f8600b22346cbcb435d0dc1-V.jpg IMG-bb7f213ce75cec060db009f7a0c30b17-V.jpg

    Now I just keep wondering what is the best motor choice. I can buy the above mentioned NEMA34 motor, but I am not sure if it is good for the purpose. I can't find my1020 motor in my country and I don't really want to wait another month for one from China.
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  11. porosenoq

    porosenoq New Member

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    Hey man, I think I've found a motor similar to my1020 here is the link:

    https://www.chasti-skuter-atv.com/ЧАСТИ-ЗА-ЕЛЕКТРИЧЕСКИ-СКУТЕРИ/електромотор-48v-1000w-sku-1700-228x228.html

    (it is in Cyrillic)

    It has similar specs to my1020, but I don't know the make or the model of the motor. What I wonder is, if I buy this motor, how many amps it draws at 12v ? I have an HP DPS1200SB power supply that is rated at 100 amps and 2 bts7960 h-bridges - Am I going to be ok ? I am very confused about all the electric stuff and I want to be sure I won't blow up something :)
  12. elnino

    elnino Active Member

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    Looks good to me but you may need 3 x ibt_2 and not 2. They are supposed to be good for 60a or something but the design is not ideal so best to de-rate them. Just try it but If they start going into thermal protection, just add a third.

    I reflowed the chips on mine to fill all the vias, then added heatsink pad beteen the board and heatsink. Mine run cool and never had a shutdown. I run a 60a car audio fuse on mine with 8ga wire. i have not blown the fuse yet...

    Ill hook up my clamp meter and see what it pulls in normal racing but unless youre trying to push it past end stop (and you have the gain high) its not likely to melt the motor in a hurry.
  13. porosenoq

    porosenoq New Member

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    Well, I've never been a fan of very strong FFB effects back when I was using a G25... So I guess I won't run it on high gain. I am just wondering where the weakest spot is. Is it the motor, the drivers or the PSU ? Isn't it an overkill to run it with 3 ibt_2s ? They are rated at 43 amps each. Won't 86 amps be enough ?
    I am looking forward for the clamp meter data :)
  14. elnino

    elnino Active Member

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    You will find that although they are rated at 43A, they wont sustain that. It might be fine but users here have noticed much lower amps before thermal shutdown. For me, an extra few dollars for a third and those basic mods means i will never run into that problem. If you're not one for big force (im not either) then you should be ok. Like i said, its only really when pushing past the end stops it pulls massive current. ill throw the meter on there today
  15. elnino

    elnino Active Member

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    So i put the clamp meter on, with my force set relatively high and driving an aussie v8 supercar in iRacing (heavy steerer) i was pulling 40-50a in turns. 'full lock' about 80a.