1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

so whats the verdict? Oculus or Vive?

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by Boomslangnz, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. Map63Vette

    Map63Vette Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Balance:
    471Coins
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Maybe I'm an exception, but frame rate and stuff doesn't seem to bother me that much. I still have my settings pretty high and don't seem to have any problems, even with just a 970. Maybe it's the ATW they talk about. Obvious jumps or stutters are a different matter, but still don't have a huge effect on me. The detail is fairly grainy on distance stuff and there's the occasional glitch or tear or something like that in the distance, but it doesn't give me nausea or anything. I know I'm in a game, so it doesn't strike me as weird I guess. My brain doesn't think my world is falling apart.
  2. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,722Coins
    Ratings:
    +378 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5
    I read lots about people saying the res ain't high enough but its still very very good when setup right, but the daft thing they all seem to say with triple screen is vr is not for serious sim racing but my point is vr is more sim thatn any monitor can do you get depth and that's the winner for me your in the car so tell me whoch is more simulation that that defo ain't triple screens to me.
    if anything its more arcade when I try to drive on a single monitor now the simulation side goes for me same when I turn the motion off it feels dead playing tbh.
    I can imagine what the meaning for triples are its easyer to race in the environment of screens as we been doing that since start of computing but cv1 rules if you ain't got one your missing out big time on simulation. which is what our goal are close as we can get without setting foot in a real car.
    anyone doubting the cv1 should test one to see if you get on with it but trust me you need time for it to sink in tbh and then the awesomness just ooggles out of it and your amazed when your adjusted to its workings and feel. fov could be better like they should use two 16/9 screens or something but for now it amazing, stick dirt rally on and your simming will never be the same again on any screen they just can not do it now.
    that what I think tbh but its still great which ever you like is the right way for you but if you don't try them you will never no. even buy a dk2 as they not too bad just not as clear but gioves you the idea whats what if you have not used vr that's what I did.
    hence never switched my monitors on again.
    cv1 was orderd straight away soon as I could get it.
    got that and prob never ever play a game on my monitor againg lol.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,083
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,684Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,369 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I agree @f1iceman - It took me a few goes to adjust to the CV1. My lap times have suffered, but the immersion is so great, THAT is why I'm slower.

    The tracks seem so much wider and things fly past you at more speed in VR.
    Coming close to the back of a car "feels" like you are close to the back of a car.
    Nearly hitting a barrier makes you wince.

    I actually finish a lap of Nords and I'm sweaty!!

    I've become a Sim Snob. I watch videos of people reviewing racing games on a NON-MOTION Sim with a single screen and I think "What would you know? Seriously... " :p
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,722Coins
    Ratings:
    +378 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5
    he he he. its so true ain't it tho.
    the whole point of it tho is simulation and vr is simulation due to depth and inside the cars ok lose abit of fov but its made up by the rest, dirt rally and motion has blown me away tbh and it can only get better if possible.
    you do get a lot that coment onb vr n they ain't having it but they have not even tried it and its all down to what they have read and the res but dirt is awesome and so are the other games and with that alone monitor are for typing to me on ! lol n searching the net but if you want to be racing and simming vr is the future but its not the future its bloody here and saying I'm gunna wait why its good now, ok decent gpu but hey that's computing as ive always known it.
    my hobby is about to get very expensive soon as I don't think I can stop now making it better, ive found the tweaks working as I ad things and just getting more blown away so osw n making my hydraulic brakes next I think.
  5. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,722Coins
    Ratings:
    +378 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5
    well my conclustion if it helps is I have the cv1 and would say get that if your just running a sim as you just can not beat the fact you set it up for your head and that's how it fits every time you put it on and takes second to fit like putting a hat on when you get the knack, but don't forget you get the headphobnes to which is even better than you can imagine and too are right there when youput it on your head. so for that reason alone is why cv1 is for me.
    some have both but if just using the sim atm vive would be a waste and seriously think all the extra stuff for room vr needs more cameras plugs extra, and if like me you live in the uk rooms are not that big and you really do hit stuff with one step, cv1 can still work well just the controllers needed that's all to take advantage of the room games. I'm not intrested other than a quick mess about abit like the leap motion I mess about but not ready for that yet with games so much so I don't bother till that gets better but I have it for when something comes out that I can have a play to see if its getting better.
    ive only kept my triple screen coz it makes my sim look cool ! lol
    so buy either god dam it they both awesome vr rules and this time its here to stay.
  6. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,287Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,003 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,482
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    101,790Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,478 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Vrvana has been kicking around as a concept for years.

    FOV is a bit tricky for VR HMDs, as it is not just the FOV that matters but also the pixel density and area of sweet spot for vision.

    I think it safe to say that Vrvana has not got access to more advanced screens than you will find in the Rift and Vive. How the screens are utilised and configured may be slightly different, and they are slightly different between the Rift and Vive.

    Until VR gear is actually in the wild it is mere speculation how useful it may be. A lot of the issues that have come up with the Rift and Vive only did so once consumers got their hands on them.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,083
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,684Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,369 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I actually thought the Rift's FOV at around 110° would be a real issue, but to be honest, once you get into a game your eyes do a great job of filtering out the "sides"

    Naturally, our eyes only focus on spaces in front of us about the size of a postage stamp, however, our brains "compute" the rest of what the eyes are taking in via periphery to give us a complete picture.

    When you first on the Rift you do feel like you are looking "into" a scene (rather than being part of it) but over time you do adjust and I don't even notice the reduced FOV - DIRT Rally is very good at compensating for this. Being squashed into a rally seat in VR really gives you a feeling of presence. It's the same for AC in the F1 cars. You think your head is bouncing off the fibreglass sides!
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,287Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,003 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Thank you guys for your comments. NTL actually I use a very wide FOV like in a real car, when sitting in the seat I can see both mirrors and all in 3D. I know and I imagine there will be a difference between 3DVISION and VR (the latter more feeling in and part of a game finally), but as long as the hardware and evolution of VR is not there where it should be IMO I hesitate to spend any money on it.
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,482
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    101,790Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,478 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Not trying to sell you on VR @Pit, just further the discussion regrading misconceptions about FOV and VR.

    When talking about a monitor or projected FOV, say for Nvidia 3D Vision, then it really is a measurable specification of up to 5760x1080: https://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-surround-technology.html

    I want to point that out, because with Nvidia 3D Vision you can't actually look behind you, or underneath you, or over your shoulder, but you can in VR. In other words in some respects you are not comparing apples with apples.

    When it is about actual human vision then normal FOV it is around 180+ degrees horizontal and 135 vertical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view

    But the human FOV does not provide even focus and in fact contains blind spots at around 15 degrees of center.

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps then it is not surprising that FOV in VR is a contentious and often misunderstood matter. Oculus avoids stating a FOV. Even when the likes of Palmer Lucky comment on some of the reasons why FOV is avoided, people's grasp can still devolve into misinformed drivel: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/com...ement_about_rift_cv1s_field/d1lxte6?context=3

    The perfect VR FOV would mirror human FOV, though that is a fair way off at the moment. And to some extent there are pending tricks that may well mask that. The reason is that while human FOV is around 180 degrees your actual focus area is much smaller. Eye tracking and Foveated Rendering for VR are not that far off: http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-smi-proves-that-foveated-rendering-is-here-and-it-really-works/

    If you combine eye tracking and Foveated Rendering with likes of Microsoft's sparse peripheral LED displays then you can potentially give the illusion of an FOV of around 170 degrees horizontal, not far off actual human FOV: http://liliputing.com/2016/05/micro...ed-field-view-sparse-peripheral-displays.html

    Of course resolution also matters, hence why Oculus is less inclined to talk about FOV and more about actual area and pixel density. Recently it was suggested that VR vision clarity was just above being legally blind: https://twitter.com/claybavor/status/749269077365956608

    I actually built a VR Snellen eye chart to test that idea, plus things like how much supersampling helps: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4q9u4j/vr_snellen_eye_charts_for_testing_supersampling/

    From my testing I consider the status of VR vision resolution, on recommended hardware, to be above the claimed 20 / ~100 and actually closer to 20 / 70. But irrespective in many ways resolution is more a deal breaking issue in VR than FOV.

    I guess the TLDR point I am making is that you can't really directly apply traditional screen related conceptions of FOV to VR. If you do then what you are really talking about is around 110 degrees FOV that can be applied over an actual physical 360 degree range.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,287Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,003 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Dear @noorbeast your'e right. My view (FOV) is limited to one direction only, of course there is no 360° range (in all directions!) which is a big disadvantage of any 3DVISION configuration and for sure we cannot compare apples with oranges. The only advantage of my system is the view through the windshield and side windows (~160°) which comes very close to a real car, because wheel, shifter etc. become part of the screen content . Darkening the room let you feel sitting inside the car and that's it, no more or less. VR is an upper class of game experience reality as you tried to explain, no doubt VR is on my wish list ntl (fortunately) my configuration is still too be good to switch from one to other.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,722Coins
    Ratings:
    +378 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5
    tgrust me the cv1 set up right is plenty good enough just get one for that extra thing for ya sim, if people have spent thousands of pounds on the kit so far theres absolutely no reason not to add the cv1 to your system or the vive. its defo worth getting now, if you want abit more fov sitting in the car and seeing out window i tend to run in car seat abit further back to point you don't see the neck of the body unless you look down at it but when moving and driving you don't see it at all, its ok to say which system you like in sims and like i have said before if its what you like then fai enough, but we are trying to tell a story that vr is amazing and the fact you in the car don't compare to anything else and the depth of a road for distance. that is most defo the real part and all that is wrong with the vr atm is basically nothing to me.
    yes we can say res every day but its the same over the years gone by with monitors you always want the better res, it will come but ages yet i guess, n basically don't miss out now. its hot and its hot for a reason in racing.
    the games will and the drivers will get better and evolve and will defo lead to more resevrve system power make it better graphics over time.
    but atm nothing to comlain about from me..
    i just think its two different systems for a sim and i like the option of them both tbh. but not to switch my outer screens on tells me i'm alot happyer with my cv1 for other reasons presented.
    i might try switching the oputer monitors on again one day ! lol
    like i say you just get used to what you have and i totally understand the fov issues but you learnb to use that, but the wow factor and amazement having a full 3d car and see my gear stick and look at my dials all sat in the car blows me away to not actually drive at times more just appreciate what they have done with the games.
    the wow factor if i was to desribe it is about how it was going to triple screen from single screen and now its gone from triple screen to cv1 and that feeling and more is defo the same.
    on some games you can even scale the actual size of the world and your car to inch perfect size from inside you could also use that to change the fov abit by making it slightly smaller so u can get the feeling of seeing more to about what you see sat in a real car.
    but the moving seat back in game helps to see out the windows more.
  13. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,287Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,003 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,482
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    101,790Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,478 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    StarVR is aimed at commercial VR facilities @Pit. It also lacks some core technology aspects, but it has been and is under constant development. I just don't think you will see it in the consumer space.
  15. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,287Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,003 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    :confused: sh**...ok. NTL there is a big space of development, the upcoming 2017 is the (real) year of VR - eventually with an equal or better horizontal field of view like the STARVR.
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    13,482
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    101,790Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,478 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Advances still need to be made to get to a consumer price and practicability point. Foveated Rendering and eye tracking are needed along further improvement in the graphics pipeline and screens.
  17. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,722Coins
    Ratings:
    +378 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5
    pit just get one the best time is now as you can play with see how you get on with it, if you don't lkike it the re-sakle is very very strong and you will not lose on selling it if you don't like it but i feel it will give you a new world to explore in gaming.
    the clarity is great you have to expect a few things on the res but it really makes up for it for emersion and depth.
    i found your comp system is one of the down fall to get the best out your cv1 as you can get rid of most the issues you fiond with graphics settings but if your system is not too good your stuck at a point to better it even if you had a better cv2 or something.
    you limit is the comp on what you can get out the cv1 atm. get that to the top and then its again diffrent and the things that was an issue can be dialled out abit more.
    only game i struggle with atm is iracing and terrible jaggies on the track marking white lines. everything else is ok but they really stop me playing it, so most my time is dirt rally atm as that is as sweet as it come for graphics. as you still get the sde buit hardly there at all i think of it like a real acar and the heated screen thing that you can see. lol
    its amazing how all the cars in the racing games dont have screen door effect and now have heated screens ! :)
    the cv1 make it possible now to play the game happily with good result not like dk2 was and gave that amazing feeling but hard to stick to playing the games due to blur or sde but to me that in the past now.
    go on treat yourself n sell while you can still get your money back simples ';-)
    if you lived near me i would have been round with mine and let you play for a few days see how you see it.
    im actually going to another over here with it to do the excact same thing :) so if anyone reads this go meet up what the hobby is about at times and can help and save each other money at times :)
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  18. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,287Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,003 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Guys I have an other issue which I would like to discuss with you. Today Samsung announced to deliver the Samsung Note 7 at the end of August. Due to the fact that I am still using a Note 2 which is working but very slowly, I think to switch to the Note 7, the GearVR is an additional gadget (for free) which will be delivered with the phone. The new GearVR shows a wider FOV (more than 100°) and has still no positional tracking, or I may be wrong? Could I play AC if using the GearVR?

    PS: http://univrses.com/site/ ?
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  19. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,486
    Occupation:
    Railway Maintenance
    Location:
    Morecambe, Lancashire, England
    Balance:
    18,827Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,169 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I have not played a game on a monitor now for nearly 2 years. The DK2 was good but the CV1 is just amazing for sim games. The new tracking camera is much more forgiving than the DK2 the ammount of rattles and vibrations that go through my rig and my CV1 oh gets the occasional glitch. After a couple of laps racing or 1 stage rallying I really do forget sometimes that I'm in a game. I get scared when going to fast and shit myself when I crash.

    The biggest problem I have is the frikkin thing steaming up and can't see what's going on cause I get so hot fighting the car. Everytime I do a rally I'm full on sweating by the end of it which is exactly like what real rally drivers are like.

    The future is here now and we are just at the start of something that will take over.

    Its not just for gaming either, soon we wont have TV's in our living room we will all be wearing 4k/8k headsets by 2020 sat on our couches.

    I've been gaming since I was about 6 some 33 years ago and there's never been a better time to be a gamer. Good time ahead
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,722Coins
    Ratings:
    +378 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5
    if i was you check out prices for the phone and the gear vr and see what you could get for them then buy the cv1 or vive with the money its like a free loan n just keep your phone you have if it works ok :)