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Sim with 360-degree Pitch,Yaw,Roll & also Heave,Surge,Sway

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by barman, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. barman

    barman New Member

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    Hi everybody,

    I want to build a 6DOF motion simulator with 360-degree rotation on pitch, yaw, & roll, and approx as much heave & surge & sway as possible (with a fair budget).

    Kind of like this: http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/post16872.html and this:http://interactive-park.com/produtos.html, and of course the Sega R360, but with XYZ motion too.

    My question for the more experiened sim-builders is this: why isn't everyone doing this? What makes this hard/expensive/impossible to do?

    The way I see it, I just need to build a platform (with a chair & drivingsim/flightsim stuff) that can jump and jolt around the XYZ axes, and put that into giant globe-style rotation thing controlled by a gyroscope & accelerometer combo.

    Combine that with a head-mounted display and some head-tracking, and I've got myself a pretty realistic (albeit limited to seated activities) virtual reality system!

    However, I'm not very experienced with this, and don't yet know much about the work, cost, and tech required to make this work. Can someone chip in some of their brainpower and experience to help me out, and maybe point out some flaws in my plan? I would really appreciate it a lot.

    Thanks,
    Barman
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    This is probably why you think it is so easy. :) Just stop for a moment and think about only the physical requirements of the whole construction. You need to calculate with at least 200kg you have to move around. You need to precisely control it's position over 3x 360°, plus you need to move the whole construction over the 3 linear axis.

    If you have a relatively cheap and safe way to do this I will be very interested!
  4. jakob

    jakob New Member

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    Main Problem is the speed. Turning the ball slow will not give you a feeling of flying a plane. You have to combine this sim with a centrifugal machine to get the G force that pushes you into the seat. Imagine what will happen to your legs, when you get upside down without g force...did you ever sit in a rollercoaster that can stop at the top of a looping?
  5. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    Im building a those Sim. Inspired from Segas R360 Arcade Machine. Look this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSJG5e0s43c
    First Test of inner Platform was succesfully.
    Now im waiting for my gear for the outer platform.
    The Sim turns 1 round in 2 seonds. Maximum


    Maybe i could make pictures of it next Week

    Attached Files:

  6. barman

    barman New Member

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    GOOD POINT! Speed is definitely an issue. Thanks for bringing that up.

    But I have a solution for that (or at least I think I do): simulate g-force by tilting the chair platform backward. Max G = back parallel to the floor.

    Since the user will be wearing an HMD, they'll have no reference to the real world besides actual physical contact. SO, tilting the platform backwards, pushing them into their chair, should feel a little bit like going really fast, and should make sure that they always stay safely in their seat.

    Of course, splitting pitch over g-force and vehicle tilt will probably make neither of them perfect. Maybe I could limit each one to 45 degrees of angle affect, and use only 180 degrees on that axis.

    What do you think? Does that make sense?


    @Menix: That's awesome. Can't wait to see those pictures.
  7. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    To achieve accurate centrifugal g-forces is I think pretty much out of the question. Not even the most sophisticated simulators can achieve that with a dynamically changing environment.

    180° is the most needed for maximum g-force simulation, anything above that will only give you the ability to reproduce rare situations like rolling your car on its top, flying a plane upside down and so on. 360° yaw rotation on the other side is great for drifting and I can see that range to be utilized.

    All in all it is not an easy task and certainly not cheap either.

    Menix: your design sounds very interesting. I would really like to see more details.
  8. barman

    barman New Member

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    OK to make it easier to build, I changed my globe design to a square one, like Menix's. Here's a mockup:

    [​IMG]

    And here's an animated GIF from a different angle, to help everyone's imagination:

    [​IMG]

    The squares are all perfect, and the cockpit is a cube, which should make it possible to maintain a stable centre of gravity. Of course, this kind of thing is easy to model, but maybe not so easy to build. I can see how this could end up being a really gigantic machine, if I'm too generous with cockpit space.

    What do you guys think? Now that I've drawn it out, does it seem more feasible?
  9. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    My machine is about 1,8m x1,8m
    and 1,8m in height but i only have 2 Axis for the first Time pitch and roll
    its easyer to build and lower costs
  10. Shkvarka

    Shkvarka New Member

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    Looking at this construction, as to me, one of the main problem is connecting the cables to the inner frame... so it could have full rotation, not a limited angle.
  11. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    This is going by using Sliprings
  12. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    In theory it looks nice and easy for sure. You will need powerful motors to move all that mass at a reasonably realistic speed and the frame has to be strong enough. With only the 3 rotational axis I think it is doable, once you start adding the 3 linear axis things will get much more complicated.

    How much are you planning to spend?
  13. barman

    barman New Member

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    I was thinking that the linear axes could work inside the cockpit box. I know that doesn't give much room, but maybe it's enough. I don't expect to get any of that lifting feeling you get from flying in a real plane -- I just want it to feel the rumble of the wheels on the road. And if I'm playing a driving game, I want to feel some impact when I smash into a wall, or bump another car. Nothing too extreme -- after all, if I'm being shaken around in my seat too much, then it'll mess up the headtracking.

    I'm hoping to spend under $2000. But there's a big flaw in my budget estimate: I've never built a sim before, so I don't know anything about the cost of the mechanical hardware involved...

    Here's what I know for sure:

    Headtracking: $150
    Head-mounted display: $400
    Wheel/Pedals: $150
    ----------------------
    Total: $700, which leaves $1300 for the rest. After reading around on the forums a little more, it seems like that might not be quite enough. But I don't have to build everything right away. I can always add more pieces gradually, as I get more and more money to spend on this.

    So I think the first step should be to get the 3-axis rotational system going, since that's the most exciting, and the most different from what others on the forum have done. In the design, I can allow room for linear-axis stuff to be added later.

    Can someone help estimate the cost of the pieces required? If we can work out a plan that fits under my budget, then I promise to make a real effort to build this thing, and document my progress for everyone to learn from.
  14. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    $1300 is not going to be enough. Even if you build your electronics and source the cheapest wiper motors, build your frame from raw materials, only the 3 rotational axis will run you well above that price.

    Just to give you a reference:
    http://www.simxperience.com/Store/tabid ... fault.aspx
    It includes pretty much everything you need for 2 axis. Your design needs a different approach, but it gives you a rough idea of the prices involved.
  15. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    Im at 1000,-- Euro for my Sim its about 1300 $
    now i need

    1 PC
    3 Monitors
    2 Motordriver
    1 Controllerboard
    Power Supply
    some cables
    Paint for the mechanics
    and some other little Things.

    You will need
    3 Motors
    min. 4 Sliprings
    Iron and wood or else for the construction
    Seat
    Belt
    Motordriver
    Controllerboard
    Power Supply
    Ball Bearings
    many other little things like bolt and nuts

    tomorow i mount my 2. Motor in my sim then i will take pictures of it
  16. barman

    barman New Member

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    @Frakk: You're probably right. Plus, my inexperience at this will cost loads of time, so that might go over budget as well. But I'm willing to AT LEAST do the research, check all the prices, and give this a chance.

    @Menix: Thank you so much for that list. That helps a lot. And it looks like you're handling your budget pretty well, if that's all you've got left to buy. I'm looking forward to those pictures!
  17. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    You are doing a good job so far. I recommend you browse the forum for the joyrider based simulator projects. It is a great start, fairly low cost and effective, perfect for first builds. You can also see that the construction is very similar to what you are looking for.

    If you made a joyrider type frame with ~180° movement it would be a kickass project and IMO very doable. I just want you to keep things realistic for your skills and budget, that way you have a very good chance of completing it.
  18. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    And dont forget to have all the tools for building.
    Welding, Drilling, lathe
    I own this tools but when you dont have a it for yourselve or a friend the costs explode.
  19. barman

    barman New Member

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    @Frakk: Thanks, that's good advice. I will definitely study the joyrider sims, and learn as much as possible from them before starting on my own design.

    @Menix: I have the tools for drilling, but no welding or lathe equipment. I'm hoping I'm hoping to avoid welding by using made-for-assembly metal pieces, like Dexion: http://www.conceptstorage.com/dexion_slotted_angle.html. It may not be as pretty as welded parts, but should be good enough for me. Are you welding everything in your design? And as for lathe, what do I need that for?
  20. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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    i think the dexion parts are not stronmg enough for the construction
    1 took iron profiles 50x30x2,5 mm
    you need a length about ca. 2m and the construction should be strong and heavy
    my Construction have a weight about 50-60kg i think, without the cockpit
  21. Menix

    Menix Member Gold Contributor

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