1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

SeatTime's DC motor Sim

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by SeatTime, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    My current Sim



    Has two motors to drive the seat, another to drive a 'heave' module in the seat, another motor to drive a surge table and another to drive the traction loss (drift) (5 Motors all up). I was testing parts for a possible new 6 DOF (six motors - full movement) for use with the Oculus Rift. But this has turned out so well I don't see what extra a 6DOF would give me. Really pleased with how it has turned out.

    Build history

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Changed to chain drive for surge table and traction loss.
    [​IMG]

    Then installed a heave module in the seat.

    [​IMG]

    Basically I cut a hole in the bottom of my seat and hinged a metal plate in there which is driven up and down by the motor and the levers/shafts. It works brilliantly with the sim driving so much more naturally without all the heave/pitching, which has changed my mind in trying to build a 6DOF (not worth it).

    I have uploaded a video (below) of my seat heave module for those that have asked, the lighting is not the best, but you can see the levers working under the seat.



    Final added a Buttkick Gamer 2 for engine and other fine vibration. Job done.
    Now just waiting on my Oculus Rift which I should receive sometime in July 14.

    Added Oculus Rift DK2

    Shown in the video below using DCS.


    • Like Like x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  3. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    4,628
    Occupation:
    Self-employed | Web and application development
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    Balance:
    24,559Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,313 / 10 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, SimAxe, SimforceGT
    Looks ok so far:thumbs
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks RaceRay, just making sure I haven't missed something.
  5. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    power supplies might be a bit low, 30 amps is the minimum for big worm gear motors. More the better.
  6. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,136
    Location:
    Zug, Switzerland
    Balance:
    7,307Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,105 / 11 / -1
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    I would agree with @bsft, especially if the 30A are "effective" rather than "arithmetic".

    Also the specs of the motors are on the "entry" side for a 3DoF. I have my doubts if they will be strong enough to lift 150 kg.
    T.
  7. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks bsft, happy to go higher if necessary as I have not ordered these just yet, but 360W is 30A at 12V, and the rated current on the worm gear motors that I have ordered is 16Amps at 12V, so figured 30Amps should be enough headroom for any surges? What surge currents do you see? As 40Amp PS cost 50% more and I would like to save some money where I can.
  8. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    30 amps will do it, but dont try to push the motors too hard. You can run these and if you find the power supplies cutting out, then look at bigger ones.
    Yes the motors are rated at 16 amps/200 watts. Ive had mine at 44 amps/530 watts peak bursts, but that was thrashing them very hard. Ive since backed them down to somewhere between 28-34 amps I think, peak.
    Also, what design did you have in mind? a 3DOF lift would best be done by boat winches.
    a 3DOF (2DOF pivot balanced and drift frame) will be fine with big worm gears.
  9. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks Value1, My 3rd DOF was going to be for Yaw (car sim) so it will never directly have to lift 150kg. Seen these motors working well on another sim, so hopefully all should be good.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    @SeatTime , yep, 3 x 12v big worm gears will do the job for a 2-3 DOFfer drift frame. I reckon a pulley system for the drift frame and cables would do the job.
    Another member has done this already I think.....
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks for the data, I think I will go with the 40Amp PS. It will be a 2DOF pivot balanced and drift frame as this seems to be the simplest while giving good response from what I can see in the videos. I track a car about 8 times a year and would like to get in some more seat time without the track/tyres/brakes etc costs. I have a standard computer sim, but find it is a bit 'dead' compared to the real thing.
  12. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I have ordered everything except for the 12 V 40A DC power supplies, are the ones designed for LEDs OK?
  13. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Should be , a mate of mine got 2 like that, but if it blows up, his problem.
  14. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yep, thats probably about right, I havent had much track day runs for years, but my seat mover is very good. I am selling it and have a bloke whom is full time racer interested once he gets back in the country.
    FYI http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/seat-mover-racing-sim-for-sale-1800.4984/
    Cheers, David.
  15. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks David, just starting to get items together for my frame and I note that your Sim has actuator arms attached at the shoulders while some other seat mover designs drive from around the feet, is one better then the other, or is it all down to the profile (I have searched - no definite answer)? Also have noted that the SCN designs have actuator movement of around 100/150mm while yours has way less. Is this just a compromise to take load off the motors, or is that amount of movement enough in real life?
    Thanks Craig.
  16. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Comparisons between simulators. Other people will of course differ with this comparison, so please add your thoughts.

    First things to consider, angle of actual swing of the frames and the profile written. Also, its a brain trick.
    If you want a big swinging frame, go hard, the biggest swing I have had is 14 deg total, but others have frames up to 25 deg. And thats for race, not just flight.
    Both frames use same motors and JRK control boards

    Seat mover with shoulder mounted motors.
    Generally ,a seat mover can give more precise motion detail as it has less over all weight to move than a full frame. However, too much movement can make it hard to hang onto the wheel or mash the juice pedal. And yes, the wheel and pedals are stationary, so proper placement to allow you being pulled away and pushed around has to be taken into consideration. But as said, it does give you the feeling of being moved around in a seat in a vehicle, even with a race seat to hold you in more. You tend to shift your body around to compensate for movement and also what your brain thinks you are moving like. You can still feel pitch and roll of track, but maybe a bit less as legs are still.
    Some SCN seat movers on videos have HEAPS of throw. It might look like fun, but can be too much and eventually make it tiring to drive the game.
    As mine is DIY and has 70mm travel of motor lever and at 600mm from the pivot , total angle is 6.5 degrees. Not much, but then again, too much may make it too hard. Other people will of course differ with this comparison.
    I had a seat mover of 12.5 degrees at one stage and 120mm throw, so with a good profile, it was nice, but a harsh profile and WHOA! Fun but hard to hang on.

    Full frame with motors mounted near feet
    Full frames allow you , wheel and pedals to move with you. You still get sensation of being pulled, pushed around from pedals and wheels. Obviously not as much as a seat mover, but still there. You tend to feel a bit more of the motion of roll and pitch , when your whole body is getting moved around, I find.
    Seat mover can lose this a bit, but not really much.
    Motors mounted at feet on the frame in question, may take away some of the finer vibration and motion that shoulder mount gives, but then again, shoulder mounting motors would return that finer detail due to higher leveage point. It may lessen a bit due to the fact that a full frame requires a bit more power to move. But hey, just change the profile and increase the motor power a bit more.
    Although, I must say, once again, a good profile can give the same sensation in motion, be it from a different spot. Feet or knees instead of shoulders.
    Full frame is about 8 deg total swing. May not sound like much considering 4 deg from centre, but again, throw a decent profile in it and you feel like you are moving a lot more.

    Summary
    After a while I get the same sort of feeling from both my frames, even though they are different in design.
    In your choice of motion sim build, It will come down to watching videos of other frames, opportunity to play on sims when they are around to do so. Taking a look at pics, seeing what takes your fancy. Heck, even a seat mover can be converted to full frame later, add the extra bit, move pivot, and off you go. 2 seat movers I have sold, the owners have since converted them to full frames, their choice of course. They enjoy both frames they tell me.
    I have only played on a $40,000 VRX dbox with 3 screens, impressive rig, but motion was lousy I though. Although others whom have such rigs wind it up and get great results. Mind you, I dont have that sort of money to get one.
    I have been through 10 different 2DOF designs, starting with joyrider design with about 9-10 deg total swing with screen on it. Good fun, but I found it a bit difficult to focus ona screen moving with you. But thats just me.
    Then I moved onto development of more compact designs, with motors under rear, at knees, out the side, shoulder mount, at feet. Still 2DOF. Screen static.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks David for the detailed reply, I have a few weeks before my gear turns up (Xmas break) so will keep on investigating. Likely will go with a design that will also move my feet, but as mass plays a big part in the response of the Sim I will see if I can introduce some aluminium- glass/carbon fibre were practicable.
  18. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,593
    Occupation:
    CAD Detailer
    Location:
    Ellenbrook, Western Australia
    Balance:
    19,693Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,655 / 22 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    If built like a seat mover mate mass is not really a concern with these motors , I have had over 200lbs people in my seat mover running the same motors without any issues to report, but ali and carbon fibre will make your rig look cool too.
    Full body movement in a sim unless its 4DOF or greater gives you no benefits its actually worse, professional drivers actually consider seat movers to produce more realistic movements and they normally prefer this. But if use for flight your heading in the right direction.
  19. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    same here, I had 130+kg mate in seat mover, tossed him around no problem.
  20. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Thanks for the feedback, understand what you are saying. Had a long think about this (have a design background in Defence -Airforce) and have come up with a modification to the typical seat mover which I have not seen anywhere else. Unfortunately it will require another motor, so the frame will be 'fitted for but not with' initially. It will work as a normal 'Seatmover with Drift' without the mod - so if I have an issue no problems. Plan is to increase the feeling of force without having to turn up the throw in the seat mover so much that you get sick , fatigued, or lose contact with the pedals/steering wheel. Will release more information when I am further advanced in my build.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  21. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,047Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,618 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Decided to put together the seat frame while waiting for parts to turn up. Still to add bracing for motors/seat and possibly stylised Alu/plywood plates on top (for safety and to keep wife happy looks wise).

    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 2